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Thread: Damn Red Dots!

  1. #11
    Site Supporter P.E. Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Not to belabor the point, but a good RDS specific class can do wonders in compressing the time frame in getting RDS proficiency down to iron speed.
    I have yet to take a shooting class, probably won't, but certainly a good idea for anyone who wants to shorted the curve.
    Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post
    I have yet to take a shooting class, probably won't, but certainly a good idea for anyone who wants to shorted the curve.
    If memory serves me right, you were a GM. I think you'll get this thing down faster than most. But yeah, picking up a different gun every two weeks with dots on them might be less smooth than doing it with irons.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  3. #13
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Dots and irons aside I think grip angle is overplayed by the masses and underplayed by the skilled. Too many uneducated people buy a gun based on how it feels and points. Poor criteria for selecting a gun. At the same time, I believe I’m a decent shooter with decent experience and switching back and forth between Glock and Beretta was a challenge to RE-establish index the first couple dozen times out of the holster after each switch. Add a dot vs irons and that adds a little to the challenge. Yes, there are coping mechanisms, but the issue exists.

    Index matters little for bullseye type shooting. Align the sights, press the trigger cleanly, and you’re good. Draws and reloads under time constraints are a different ball of wax and index matters a bit more.
    Food Court Apprentice
    Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer

  4. #14
    The dot learning curve is substantial, if you want to benefit from the full capability of the dot — which is much more than “making low probability shots.” However, once that investment is made, the dot part of switching platforms is not too difficult.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter P.E. Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    If memory serves me right, you were a GM. I think you'll get this thing down faster than most. But yeah, picking up a different gun every two weeks with dots on them might be less smooth than doing it with irons.


    That was the point I failed to make as succinctly as you.

    Add a RDS that is not known to you...is it on? How do I turn it on? What will I see for a dot?
    It might be a big circle with a dot, or a cross hair or a small medium or large dot. How bright is it? Again is it on?

    Irons are ON and Ready for all too see at a glance.

    As cool as they are (and make me feel young eyed again) they have pit falls outside of game gun use from my POV.
    Hell, inside of 10 yards I can nearly run most hose'em events from the hip, is sight system matters little in that regard.
    That said, I will have them on more and more hand tools for sure! They are wicked fast for accuracy.

    And yes, I was a USPSA GM and Master NRA Bullseye, Master Service Rifle, Master Handgun Silhouette and some other stuff.
    Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good

  6. #16
    I wanted to try them, and I made an effort to transition to an optics ready version of the same thing I have been shooting almost exclusively weekly for two years. I think today was my forth week and I think staying in the rut I was already in has helped significantly.

  7. #17
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    Check out Scott Jedlinski's posting on YouTube. Lots of good info, advice and drills. One of his recommends is excellent, where you always start high when pushing out for a shot. It's a great idea because your dot will always be coming from one direction, top to bottom. It's pretty difficult to lose the dot when you always know, and expect the dot to come from the top. And dry firing. Lots of dry firing.

  8. #18
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    I'm just starting out on dots and trying to learn to get a reliable sight picture of the dot as I am target focused. Since I don't have a practical opportunity to take a dot specific class at the moment, I am doing a lot of dry presentations, as suggested by Scott Jedlinkski / Modern Samurai Project in one of his videos I reviewed recently.

    Another online training reference I've found is Aaron Cowan / Sage Dynamics. In in particular his White Paper "Miniaturized Red Dot Systems for Duty Handgun Use", 3rd Edition, links here:

    Web site:

    https://www.sagedynamics.org/

    White Paper:

    https://1312bba5-e7e7-76e8-1fca-a01b...4a0c1370c2.pdf


    After reviewing the fundamentals of Optic Shooting,there's an interesting section on initial training of officers on acquiring the dot: (emphasis mine):

    With the handgun, only two points of contact aid in alignment of the optic body to the dominant eye. The best method for working through this potential hurdle, as it will not happen to all officers, is to instruct officers to drive the firearm to their eyes while looking exactly where they wish to hit the target. If the dot does not appear upon presentation, the officer should move their head until they see the dot while holding the firearm perfectly still. If they find the dot and it is aligned with their desired point of impact, the issue is with their alignment of the firearm to the eye and not with the MRDS to the target. It is normal for eye/hand coordination to place the firearm in the correct location while not necessarily aligning it perfect with the eye; much in the same way we are able to throw a ball to a specific point without conscious thought as to alignment, these functions occur naturally whether it’s a baseball or the alignment of a handgun to a target. This generally isnt an issue with iron sights due to the open nature of their radius and the small, unconscious corrections that are made as the firearm presents.

    You guys who shoot dots, would you agree with this?

  9. #19
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    Had my first chance to shoot dots yesterday. Both rifle and pistol. I felt like I was cheating. Plenty of work to do to get fast, but, a great gift for my aging eyes.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  10. #20
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyGBiv View Post
    Had my first chance to shoot dots yesterday. Both rifle and pistol. I felt like I was cheating. Plenty of work to do to get fast, but, a great gift for my aging eyes.
    That’s how I feel - it’s mostly an accommodation for my aging eyes, but damn what a difference!
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

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