How (Turkish)drones helped Azerbaijan defeat Armenia

[LittleLebowski]

Savage footage.

https://theprint.in/opinion/how-dron...arfare/544668/

Back in the 1990s, it was the Armenians who had trumped Azerbaijan. But decades later the tables turned, in a way that could have severe implications on modern warfare.

“(This) is actually the first war in the history of modern warfare that has been won almost entirely on the strength of drone warfare,” Gupta noted.

The war between Armenia and Azerbaijan started on 27 September, over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region.

Further reading.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/arme...-conflict.html

[VT1032]

It's certainly interesting. I spent most of that war impressed with how lethal the drones were, but also wondering how they would fare against a great power adversary with modern air defenses including specific countermeasures against drones. It definitely hammered home the point that every armored vehicle needs an active protection system, laser warning receiver, etc if it wants to survive on a modern battlefield. Armor is no longer enough.

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[BWT]

This is where I really think something like if NFA was repealed needs to be emphasized on how not much of a decision factor small arms are.

I mean, the Taliban has Belt-Feds, Rocket Launchers, IED’s, vehicles, etc. but man having drones that can see infrared, etc. monitor and intercept communications, etc.

I look at this and it’s just like “warfare has moved on”. Any kind of conventional war those things would still not really match this kind of capability.

At least it doesn’t seem to help Armenia. Interesting to read.

[Caballoflaco]

It's certainly interesting. I spent most of that war impressed with how lethal the drones were, but also wondering how they would fare against a great power adversary with modern air defenses including specific countermeasures against drones. It definitely hammered home the point that every armored vehicle needs an active protection system, laser warning receiver, etc if it wants to survive on a modern battlefield. Armor is no longer enough.

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How long before we have an electronic warfare position at the platoon level?

And how long before we reach a point where in order to negate an enemy’s technology we’ll have to throw so much electromagnetic radiation in the air that our guys will be back to using compasses and and field telephones with wires (almost like a macro version of the shields in Dune)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Israeli drone article: https://www.defensenews.com/unmanned...ian-countries/

[VT1032]

How long before we have an electronic warfare position at the platoon level?

And how long before we reach a point where in order to negate an enemy’s technology we’ll have to throw so much electromagnetic radiation in the air that our guys will be back to using compasses and and field telephones with wires (almost like a macro version of the shields in Dune)

USMC is putting a dedicated drone operator at the platoon level in the current re-organization.

[awp_101]

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/0...-karabakh.html

Scroll to the bottom and you can see a list of destroyed/damaged/captured equipment with links to each one:

[TGS]

USMC is putting a dedicated drone operator at the platoon level in the current re-organization.

Even better:

It's at the squad level.

[EPF]

How long before we have an electronic warfare position at the platoon level?

Not soon enough. If history is my guide I’ll wager it will take a disaster to spur the change. We already have had some form of EW at the team level for more than a decade and it’s largely treated as an after thought extra duty like the CIED enablers.

The UAV threat has been identified and solutions partially funded for years but the hardest part is getting commanders to prioritize newer technologies. Gadgetry just isn’t as sexy as tanks on line preparing to defend the Fulda Gap.

Sending teams to counter UAV is only a requirement for units going to an identified threat area and is treated as just another enabler, box checked, move on. If shit got real they would be trying to remember which two privates had the training. Some SOF units have seen the light and take it seriously.

My buddy running the program spends most of his time in used car salesman mode. This won’t become a priority until we get to the “this shit sells itself” stage.

[trailrunner]

The UAV threat has been identified and solutions partially funded for years but the hardest part is getting commanders to prioritize newer technologies. Gadgetry just isn’t as sexy as tanks on line preparing to defend the Fulda Gap.

IMO, the hard part is getting firm requirements. I developed IR systems to detect, ID, and track UAVs - the first part of the kill chain. Most of the systems I developed were based on mature technology and were around TRL 6 when finished. When I'd brief operators and the schools that develop requirements, my standard pitch was that we have demonstrated the capability, but now I need requirements. Give me those and I will start building a system tomorrow. Conversely, I'd often get the question: "How far can your sensor see?" My response was that I could detect a UAV on the moon if that's your only requirement. But if you want 360 coverage, and if you want it to be affordable and mobile, then we're going to have start making some trades. We went round and round on this. Then there was the doctrine debate about who owns air defense. I am an engineer and don't have a dog in that fight, so I'd disengage when that conversation started. This was bad enough just dealing with one branch, but when it expanded to DoD at large, or federal or local law enforcement, or other government agencies, the discussion diverged even further.

Not soon enough. If history is my guide I’ll wager it will take a disaster to spur the change. We already have had some form of EW at the team level for more than a decade and it’s largely treated as an after thought extra duty like the CIED enablers.

That was the other part of my pitch. We are not going to come up with a system until we get embarrassed. Then there will be a wakeup call, and in a panic we'll build a system that countered that last threat.