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Thread: Canadian Special Forces pulls P320s from service after soldier injured by misfire

  1. #201

    Canadian Special Forces pulls P320s from service after soldier injured by misfire

    My county only allows TWO handguns (by serial number) on a CCW permit. So being able to turn an edc 365XL with 507K into a 365 ankle/pocket gun as needed is a real world advantage.

    For the 320 might be nice to swap grips for glove vs summer weather.

    This is the only reason I’m switching from G48 & G19 to P365XL & P320.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Yah, the whole "interchangeable" FCU thing is kind of cool and all, but is it really all that useful, especially over the long term?

    How often do the real end users swap the bits and configs around on a regular basis?


  2. #202
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandal View Post
    My county only allows TWO handguns (by serial number) on a CCW permit. So being able to turn an edc 365XL with 507K into a 365 ankle/pocket gun as needed is a real world advantage.

    For the 320 might be nice to swap grips for glove vs summer weather.

    This is the only reason I’m switching from G48 & G19 to P365XL & P320.
    Which makes sense in a restricted area, same as the HK4 caliber change kit.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
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  3. #203
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Which makes sense in a restricted area, same as the HK4 caliber change kit.
    I had one of those but I gave it to a relative about 20 years ago. Mine was only .380 and I didn't have the kit. That was responsible for the last two HK's I bought. Never been disappointed. The thing I noticed about it was it was very accurate and it virtually destroyed the ejected brass. Deep indents at the base.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  4. #204
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Yah, the whole "interchangeable" FCU thing is kind of cool and all, but is it really all that useful, especially over the long term?

    How often do the real end users swap the bits and configs around on a regular basis?

    Kind of like the Stoner 63, where you could make all sorts of cool guns- but most users pretty much just set it up as an LMG, and left it there.
    Ever see an arms room full of beat up M9 frames? Or smooth worn Glock frames? Every M9 I was ever issued looked like it was dragged to the range behind the truck.

    I don't think the advantage here is too much to the individual user; sure some will benefit from the ability to move the Legos around, especially in locales with legal restrictions. But from a logistical standpoint, the ability to swap out frames every few years during the rebuild process is significant. And they're cheap.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGlock34 View Post
    Ever see an arms room full of beat up M9 frames? Or smooth worn Glock frames? Every M9 I was ever issued looked like it was dragged to the range behind the truck.

    I don't think the advantage here is too much to the individual user; sure some will benefit from the ability to move the Legos around, especially in locales with legal restrictions. But from a logistical standpoint, the ability to swap out frames every few years during the rebuild process is significant. And they're cheap.
    Those who have never been in bureaucratic organizations are not quite going to get the advantages Modular systems provide within the artificial constraints of bureaucracy. Doesn’t matter whether it is military law enforcement or other government.

  6. #206
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    One does hope that they'll take full advantage of that feature, and not fall into the temptation to "save money" by trying to push the lifespan of things longer than intended.

    Not that our military or any other organization would ever do something like that.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  7. #207
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    In my opinion,where the M17/M18 runs the risk of falling off its collective and individual wheels could be in protracted use in hostile environments with limited higher echelon support/resupply capabilities. Where Glocks have a proven abilities to perform with limited maintenance and limited forecasted parts replacements, the M17/M18 posesses what I suspect is limited on-site servicibility beyond operator field stripping. With problematic pistols, I suspect that instead of repair, FCUs with issues are simply replaced.

    If FCU resupply is limited, repair can become paramount to keep the platform user viable. The FCU is seemingly comprised of multiple fiddley parts, challenging field maintenance and repair.

    If my scenario is correct, it also casts apersions on the validity of the costing model accepted by DoD in the winning bid process. The incomplete testing protocol is another yawning gap.

    There's strong anecdotal evidence that Tier One units are fully cognizant of this, and are sticking primarily with Gen 3 and Gen4/5 Glocks.

    I'm envisioning a slow-moving train wreck in the future.

    Best, Jon

  8. #208
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    I imagine protecting the FCU from fiddling by Joe is the reason that the MHS pistols originally had the 'tamper proof' key for the takedown lever, but it seems this 'feature' does not appear on the issue article. That trigger return spring in particular looks easily damaged.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  9. #209
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSGlock34 View Post
    Every M9 I was ever issued looked like it was dragged to the range behind the truck.
    But the guns worked and didn't fire due to mechanical failure when dropped and drug behind a HMMV right? And did the aesthetic damage result in less performance on the part of the end user?

    I'n sure you're catching my drift here - but for other folks and sake or clarity:

    If the guns are safe and work - does it matter if they look like hammered dog shit?

    I understand that many M9s in service are reaching the end of their usable life span. Things can only be rebuilt/refurbished so much before they're done. That's true of any mechanical object.

    In the long term, we're going to genuinely find out if the P320 has mechanical issues. The volume of incidents will stack up too high to counter with "user error". In addition, we're going to see the dinky-ness of this design doesn't hold up to long-tern abuse. That "rebuilding" the guns is going to be tantamount to replacing them, not rebuilding them. Eventually, the economy of scale won't add up, because full scale replacement is happening more often than not.

  10. #210
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    But the guns worked and didn't fire due to mechanical failure when dropped and drug behind a HMMV right? And did the aesthetic damage result in less performance on the part of the end user?

    I'n sure you're catching my drift here...
    I think by linking my comment about the potential benefits of a modular design to the reported safety issues, you are presenting a false choice. Obviously, any logistical advantages to a modular design should not come at the expense of the intrinsic safety of the firearm.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

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