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Thread: Small town problems--whether to bother with training

  1. #1

    Small town problems--whether to bother with training

    So I believe it's nearly universally agreed that BJJ is the gold standard for empty hand skill training. I do not have a reasonable option for BJJ training. The BJJ places nearest to me are frankly too far for me to drive consistently over the long term. Maybe not too far for you. But too far for me. (Know thyself...)

    So my local options are things like "karate" or tae-kwon-do. My question is whether you think something is better than nothing.

    I'm a middle aged office-worker-type guy with no martial arts background. I am not hoping to become a serious kick butt sort of person. I'm just interested in learning a bit of empty hand stuff. But is karate likely to be worse than nothing? Or is it likely to be decent but flawed? I realize that this is highly dependent on whether the lead instructor is a doofus, and so you likely can't give a really clear answer in the abstract. But I'd appreciate any guidance you're willing to offer.

  2. #2
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Top UFC stars like George St-Pierre, Lyoto Machida, and Chuck Liddell all had backgrounds in karate and made it part of their fighting careers.
    ...
    Georges St-Pierre
    Georges St-Pierre. ...
    Lyoto Machida. ...
    Stephen Thompson. ...
    Chuck Liddell. ...
    Robert Whittaker. ...
    Bas Rutten. ...
    Nick Diaz. ...
    Katsunori Kikuno.
    Also, have a look at:

    https://medium.com/martial-arts-unle...c-80942ae0061f


    It may not be the perfect fit, but it will up your fitness, your ability to strike and your confidence. Just my opinion as one who spent some time many years ago in a Shotokan dojo and did quite a bit of full contact sparring at various meets.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

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  3. #3
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    It really will depend on the instructor.

    If they offer "freestyle" sparring (x amount of time continuously throwing punches, kicks, strikes and sweeps) you will be better off than if they're a school that subscribes to "point fighting" where you reset after every contact to the head or torso.

    That is basically tag. Taekwondo schools have the same issue. It will depend on the instructor.

    You don't need to be doing hard contact sparring on the regular, but some place that makes you stop and reset every time you got bonked on the headgear will teach you nothing about how to strike in a meaningful way.

    The other option is going there, making friends, buying mats for the garage/basement and working out together, trying new stuff without worrying about what sensei thinks.

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  4. #4
    Even shitty karate will teach timing, body dynamics, hitting hard. Karate punches have knocked out a lot of people. It may not be BJJ but it has its own worth.

    In Cape Town before BJJ was even heard off, Goju, Shotokan, Shukokai, Ishin Ryu, Kyrkoshin Karateka were doing just fine knocking people out. Just find a serious school and augment gaps with seminars and guys you meet along the journey... especially boxers, judoka and wrestlers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    I'm a middle aged office-worker-type guy with no martial arts background. I am not hoping to become a serious kick butt sort of person. I'm just interested in learning a bit of empty hand stuff. But is karate likely to be worse than nothing? Or is it likely to be decent but flawed? I realize that this is highly dependent on whether the lead instructor is a doofus, and so you likely can't give a really clear answer in the abstract. But I'd appreciate any guidance you're willing to offer.
    Regular boxing gets passed over more than I think it should.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Duces Tecum View Post
    Regular boxing gets passed over more than I think it should.
    Actually, if I had a choice between BJJ and boxing, I would definitely pick boxing. (Whether that's right or wrong.) But there's no boxing gym here, either.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  7. #7
    Thanks to everyone so far. Very helpful!
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    May as well chime in here, since I have a dan ranking (black belt) in Okinawan Goju-ryu, and once ran my own dojo.

    What people above say about Karate is true: the instructor and student population ultimately vivifies a particular art and to a large extent determines the value; timing, stance and body mechanics can be learned; lots of people have gotten their ass kicked by Karate-trained fighters; you want a little bit of striking training in your repertoire anyways; you’ll get some core fitness and definitely be more dangerous than less if you work hard for a few years.

    That said, while nobody really wants to be in front of me in a striking-only bout, I’ve had my ass regularly handed to me on the ground by a pile of BJJ practitioners, so the consensus rings true for me—increasing my limited grappling skill is going to be my primary focus moving forward, probably for the rest of my active days.

    And, *that* said, I was able to hold my own against a surprising number of BJJ white and blue belts while rolling as a total novice, because they still make mistakes, and I understand the way joints bend and lock, even if I have to think about it all from a new sideways perspective, while desperately trying to avoid spazzing out on the mat. I even tapped several of the gym’s blue belts a few times because they made an error, and I know how to bar an arm, even if my positioning and basics are completely lacking.

    Lastly, a good dojo in almost anything will teach breakfalls from throws. If the place you are looking at trains takedowns and throws, you will lean how to fall while everyone throws you around. That stuff is golden, and well worth spending some time absorbing—just for walking around as an old guy in winter, if nothing else.

    I really wish I had done BJJ as a kid, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t get a bunch of good stuff out of TMA, since it was there and available at the time.

    JMO.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  9. #9
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    Honestly, some friends with striking mitts, shinguards, and headgear and some boxing/kickboxing instructionals might be a solid choice. YouTube university is often snickered at, but it's made some dangerous dudes.

    Guys like Lachlan Giles and Craig Jones from Australia are did extremely well in the competition BJJ scene because they watched Ryan Hall's 50/50 instructional and practiced leglocks, and that's a country with very little of the BJJ scene that we have in the States or in Europe or Brazil.

    No chance that you live in the Midwest and there's a wrestling club nearby? Because wrestling is a heck of a way to control as well.

    In truth, I'd put it on par with most BJJ for "self defense". I mean let's face it, if I'm in an unarmed fight, am I going to be snapping bones or tearing ACLs? Probably not. If it's one on one I'll look for a takedown, probably score it because most guys can't wrestle and I'll go to some type of pin and wait for the cops. If it's multiple attackers I'd be trying to stay standing and if I went to the ground I'd try to stand up.

    That type of grappling is not solely the bailiwick of BJJ. Granted BJJ has some excellent control positions like back mount, that wrestling usually wouldn't use...but that's a small tweak.

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  10. #10
    Is there no wrestling, either? IIRC, Greco-Roman wrestling has been stated by Craig Douglas as being a very powerful tool while upright (boxing and Greco-Roman wrestling for upright, BJJ when grounded); dunno if there's a local school program for that or something that you might be able to tap into.

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