Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 43

Thread: Which Ready Position is Right?

  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Living across the Golden Bridge , and through the Rainbow Tunnel, somewhere north of Fantasyland.
    As others have said, context is everything. A lot of these ready positions are frankly being used, or even taught, totally out of context. I've never personally seen Ken's version of the Temple Index, using both hands....and it isn't something I think I'd be likely to use moving through a panicked crowd in the proverbial "Active Shooter " situation. On the other hand, though I haven't taken the VCQB course from Centrifuge, I xlcan definitely see the context and value in their version of TI...in context. Instagram hissy fits aside.

    We have unit's in our department teaching Sul in really inappropriate contexts, in my opinion.....basically as the "one true ready.position". Then I see body camera footage of cops breaking the plane through a doorway turning toward the unknown alone....with one hand on the gun with a bent wrist. Not ideal and not in context. There's that word again. Think @TGS used it earlier? Maybe those Discount Security guys know something after all. You do get more for less!

    On the other hand, I do agree with Ken of the "Holster Index" being a very under rated and under used concept. Especially in the context of running around with a gun.

  2. #12
    Site Supporter P.E. Kelley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Dry-side of Washington State
    Note: I am NOT an Operator in any sense.

    My civi take is...I draw a lot from my holster/s and having a full firing grip on my holstered gun
    makes the most sense to me. I can move well enough and have an arm free to work around obstacles
    and get on target fast enough to make things happen in my favor.
    Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good

  3. #13
    Interesting. He starts as if his intended audience is CCL citizens but then he talks about why high gun is bad if you’re in a stack... so in my view, he blurred the lines there.

    First, Temple Index as taught by Centrifuge is NOT what Ken just demonstrated. His use of that term only muddies the water. TI is also a movement position, not a ready position.

    If I hadn’t seen it myself, I wouldn’t have believed Ken suggested anything that came from the mind of James Yeager... and that technique is a horrible idea in my opinion for all the reasons stated.

    We typically teach Sul as a way to move around each other (as in LEO’s). Not for moving through a crowd. I suspect we can all agree moving through a crowd is a nightmare scenario - especially a crowd running from gunfire. The only good advice I saw in that video was the option to stay holstered in a crowd.

  4. #14
    Member 98z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Mississippi
    Quote Originally Posted by jd950 View Post
    I seem to recall that we used to sometimes refer to it (somewhat derisively)as the "Sabrina." Yes, I know, not quite the same position...just adding some historical context.

    Attachment 67318
    I first heard that in the academy. One hand is a half Sabrina. Two hands is a full Sabrina. After they told us that, they said “And don’t do that shit. It’s for the movies to get the gun and face in the shot.” [emoji1787]

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Wasatch Front
    For.The.Win! @ 2:46 “… in the gun culture where everybody’s obsessed with speed”!

    Ah, the joy of the differences in people’s terminology.

    I’ve come to appreciate Spaulding’s use of dictionary definitions when it comes to words. His breakdown on ready versus preparatory or movement positions is worth hearing.

    Hackathorn's TI is not the same as Petty’s TI, but we already have a lengthy debate, or two, on it.

    I enjoyed hearing Mr. Hackathorn’s considered, measured explanation.

    Which one is best? Depends. Context, circumstances matter.

  6. #16
    Member jd950's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    In the flyover zone
    Quote Originally Posted by 98z28 View Post
    I first heard that in the academy. One hand is a half Sabrina. Two hands is a full Sabrina. After they told us that, they said “And don’t do that shit. It’s for the movies to get the gun and face in the shot.” [emoji1787]
    I would love a full Sabrina.

    Um, perhaps I have drifted off topic.

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    south TX
    As others have noted, context is everything.

    In an LE context, I have noted that, being practiced and confident in my draw, I am comfortable doing such things as building searches holstered whilst other deputies/officers have their guns out.

    As "temple index" goes, I can envision scenarios in MY reality where that MAY be applicable one-handed, but hardly ever two-handed. In MY personal reality, the need to have my off hand use a flashlight/open doors/etc. is very high.
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  8. #18
    From a presentation standpoint, I wish more instructors used inert objects when demonstrating ready positions. I'm not saying anything Ken did was unsafe but it's way easier to discuss issues of retention and muzzling when you have a live body to call into your video frame, than demoing with a real pistol and no assistant. The only time I use a live firearm in a demo is if I actually intend to fire it.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    SE Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    As others have noted, context is everything.

    In an LE context, I have noted that, being practiced and confident in my draw, I am comfortable doing such things as building searches holstered whilst other deputies/officers have their guns out.
    This. It became all the more convenient, when the Safariland 6360 ALS/SLS rig became standard issue. With the hood down, and my thumb on the remaining release, I could have a firing grip on the weapon, with the muzzle pointed in a most-safe direction. Not an 100% replacement for a low ready, but certainly a replacement for much walking-about with gun-in-hand.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  10. #20
    Some dude put together this piece on ready positions.

    I will add that in testing in multiple class sessions, starting with the hand on the holstered pistol takes about .5 off of the draw. An added advantage is that for the concealed carrier, getting a sneaky grip on the pistol with the support hand ready to clear gives a person a faster draw stroke, but it also keeps everything covered.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •