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Thread: Which Ready Position is Right?

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    Which Ready Position is Right?

    Ken Hackathorn discusses the benefits, and potential drawbacks, of the various ready positions used by shooters in range, self-defense, and tactical environments.

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    Well reasoned opinions. I don't really agree with his temple index or high gun position. If I'm moving through a crowd, I probably want my off hand free to move people, but what do I know compared to Hackathorn? On the other hand, I really believe in his holstered ready for many applications. I'd hate to shoot (or get shot by) a brother or sister officer on a staircase of some post WWII era residence in Twinbrook (MD) on a building search.

    Thanks for posting.

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    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    If I'm moving through a crowd, I probably want my off hand free to move people, but what do I know compared to Hackathorn?
    Apparently a lot.

    That video definitely made sure I'll never spend money on a Hackathorn class. There's a time for people to hang up their hat and retire, regardless of whatever accomplishments or status that was gained from work decades in the past.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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    Member 98z28's Avatar
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    Huh. Nice watch, though.

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    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    The temple index, aka Modified Hollywood Ready, seems fundamentally flawed.
    • If you bump into something/get bumped you're going to muzzle your own head.
    • You may be muzzling your head by default with a shorter barrel.
    • Retention is going to impossible if someone grabs the gun, you've got zero leverage.
    • Both hands are now mandatory for any semblance of safety.
    • You look at least as "on the offense" as the high gun.
    • The gun is in everyone's eye line and is going to make you stand out.



    Side note, the way I was taught Sul (which seems to be higher then he demonstrates) even if a toddler is running around me I'm not muzzling them unless I step over them. Is that more or less likely then the hypothetical church having a second floor or a mezzanine if the rationale is you can never muzzle anyone in an active shooter situation?
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    The temple index, aka Modified Hollywood Ready, seems fundamentally flawed.
    • If you bump into something/get bumped you're going to muzzle your own head.
    • You may be muzzling your head by default with a shorter barrel.
    • Retention is going to impossible if someone grabs the gun, you've got zero leverage.
    • Both hands are now mandatory for any semblance of safety.
    • You look at least as "on the offense" as the high gun.
    • The gun is in everyone's eye line and is going to make you stand out.
    If you're referring to how he was performing it, yes.

    The way we teach temple index is different, and it's contextually useful such as when working in vehicles or other sorts of confined spaces and not to be considered a universal. I.e., if you're trying to use it in a gun grab, you're doing it wrong.

    If you're using it when moving in/around vehicles, it's useful and you're not going to be muzzling your own head and your other hand is free to manipulate objects or persons.



    I take issue with the way that Hackathorn was presenting the various positions lacking the correct contextual use, which I'm perceiving as an intentional bias (red-herring) to make his argument plausible. Not just regarding temple index, but the high ready as well.....no shit you don't want to point your gun at your team-mates head or back when in a stack, which is why you don't use the high ready in that context.

    I also take issue with his point that you're only going to be remembering and using 1 or 2 ready positions. That might be true for a demographic that was eligible to take retirement 3 decades ago, but from what I've seen among our agents that is not true. The majority of people in the bell-curve of competency subconsciously point the gun in a safe direction. The various ready positions are just templates for teaching muscle memory and muzzle awareness applicable to various contexts.
    Last edited by TGS; 02-09-2021 at 08:58 AM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    The way we teach temple index is different, and it's contextually useful such as when working in vehicles or other sorts of confined spaces and not to be considered a universal. I.e., if you're trying to use it in a gun grab, you're doing it wrong.
    He was talking about it in the context of a church security team member and an active shooter as I understood it.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

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    Member jd950's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    The temple index, aka Modified Hollywood Ready, seems fundamentally flawed.
    I seem to recall that we used to sometimes refer to it (somewhat derisively)as the "Sabrina." Yes, I know, not quite the same position...just adding some historical context.

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    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    One thing that isn't discussed enough in temple index is the gun itself, especially when taught in the ccw and lay-protector context. Full-ish sized guns have a larger margin of error in index point and muzzle coverage. Regular earth folks running a G26 or 365, stressed out and fatigued are at higher risk and point guns at their own heads, time and again. I've been taught the double-fisted cheek weld thing Ken did in the video, and heard it called several things. It's problematic as well for the same reasons.

    Watched a lot of people point guns at their own heads with temple index, and at each other with SUL. So much suck in how these are taught and talked about sometimes.
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    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    if you're trying to use it in a gun grab, you're doing it wrong.
    I'm certain this video isn't intended for you or your team, but for the low average CCW holder. In the context you use temple index, it does what it's supposed to. Now imagine average CCW holder or church security guy using temple index in a crowd. If someone initiates a grab, security guy is in a bad way.

    As you say, it's all about context.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

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