LEOSA retired qual state by state question

[jlw]

Here's what the GA POST web page states:

"With the implementation of this rule, retired officers may elect to comply with the provisions of POST rule 464-5-.03.1 and thus meet the provisions of USC 18-44-926C (c)(5) which states that "during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms." Please note that there are other provisions that a retired officer must meet in order to comply with this code section, such as: years of service, identification, etc. Since H.R. 218 is federal legislation, it is not an issue directly addressed by POST rule 464-5-.03.1. Thus, individuals seeking authorization under that provision of federal law should acquaint themselves with the law and its requirements."


Under the rule cited above, the instructor must be a POST certified firearms instructor; however, as the quoted passage states, the federal legislation is not directly addressed by GA POST rules.

GA POST has developed this form which may be submitted to receive certification of qualification.

[DDTSGM]

Kansas does not offer an opportunity for individual trainers/instructors to charge for LEOSA Retiree Qualifications.

The agency may offer the opportunity to qualify for their retirees. If any agency does not offer the opportunity to qualify, then the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center conducts retired officer's qualifications on a quarterly basis.

The center is allowed to recoup their administrative costs which runs $45.59 for one sidearm and $55.59 for two sidearms:

KSA74-5607. POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMISSION; COMPENSATION AND EXPENSES; MEETINGS; RULES AND REGULATIONS, FIREARMS; FINGERPRINTING.

(e) The commission shall adopt the rules and regulations that arenecessary to ensure that law enforcement officers are adequately trained and to enforce the provisions of this act. Such rules and regulations shall include, but are not limited to, the establishment of a course of fire as a standard qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms that may also be used for qualified retired officers to carry firearms pursuant to federal law. The director shall provide qualification opportunities for qualified retired officers at least twice a year at the times and places the director determines to be necessary. The training center shall charge and collect a fee from retired state, local and federal officers for the qualification opportunities, but these fees shall be limited to the actual costs of presenting the standard qualifications course.

When I was working at KLETC we had quite a few regulars from Federal Agencies who for whatever reason weren't able to get qualified by their agency.

Kansas is, I believe more strict than need be regarding documentation of weapons than is actually required:

Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF
CONCEALED FIREARMS. § 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

Our qualification cards lists a max of two sidearms by Make Model and Caliber which I feel goes beyond the requirements as to type, which to me would be 'semi-auto pistol' and/or 'revolver'

JMO

[TGS]

Our qualification cards lists a max of two sidearms by Make Model and Caliber which I feel goes beyond the requirements as to type, which to me would be 'semi-auto pistol' and/or 'revolver'

JMO

Agreed. I think that's kind of strange given what federal courts have ruled. Is that process just a carry-over from how the state police are qualified on weapons, and not something the prosecutors would actually hold the QLEOs feet to if they were to carry a weapon not on paper?

[ECS686]

Kansas does not offer an opportunity for individual trainers/instructors to charge for LEOSA Retiree Qualifications.

The agency may offer the opportunity to qualify for their retirees. If any agency does not offer the opportunity to qualify, then the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center conducts retired officer's qualifications on a quarterly basis.

The center is allowed to recoup their administrative costs which runs $45.59 for one sidearm and $55.59 for two sidearms:

KSA74-5607. POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMISSION; COMPENSATION AND EXPENSES; MEETINGS; RULES AND REGULATIONS, FIREARMS; FINGERPRINTING.

(e) The commission shall adopt the rules and regulations that arenecessary to ensure that law enforcement officers are adequately trained and to enforce the provisions of this act. Such rules and regulations shall include, but are not limited to, the establishment of a course of fire as a standard qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms that may also be used for qualified retired officers to carry firearms pursuant to federal law. The director shall provide qualification opportunities for qualified retired officers at least twice a year at the times and places the director determines to be necessary. The training center shall charge and collect a fee from retired state, local and federal officers for the qualification opportunities, but these fees shall be limited to the actual costs of presenting the standard qualifications course.

When I was working at KLETC we had quite a few regulars from Federal Agencies who for whatever reason weren't able to get qualified by their agency.

Kansas is, I believe more strict than need be regarding documentation of weapons than is actually required:

Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF
CONCEALED FIREARMS. § 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

Our qualification cards lists a max of two sidearms by Make Model and Caliber which I feel goes beyond the requirements as to type, which to me would be 'semi-auto pistol' and/or 'revolver'

JMO

Most Federal agencies don't want to deal with any retiree quals. They would feel they had liability if the retiree got in hot water.

The local agency here that as of now provide LEOSA quals go by the Department SOP which give you a card for each specific firearm but you have to qualify on each.

Where the state standard is revolver for any revolver nd semi for any semi and the FEDs don't say. So IMHO its overkill


But thanks for the input Very interesting. Really appreciate the info.

[DDTSGM]

Is that process just a carry-over from how the state police are qualified on weapons, and not something the prosecutors would actually hold the QLEOs feet to if they were to carry a weapon not on paper?

No, I think it is just a very narrow interpretation. Unlike many states, in Kansas we have a centralized academy that is separate from any LE agency.

Here's a link to a PDF of our training act: www.kscpost.org/forms/trainingact.pdf

[HCM]

Most Federal agencies don't want to deal with any retiree quals. They would feel they had liability if the retiree got in hot water.

The local agency here that as of now provide LEOSA quals go by the Department SOP which give you a card for each specific firearm but you have to qualify on each.

Where the state standard is revolver for any revolver nd semi for any semi and the FEDs don't say. So IMHO its overkill


But thanks for the input Very interesting. Really appreciate the info.

It’s not that federal agencies “don’t want to deal with retiree quals.” LEOSA quals are based on the retirees state of residence.

Federal LE instructors, whether FLETC or Agency certified are not state certified to run state qualification courses. I’m not aware of any federal agency that does retiree quals.

[TGS]

It’s not that federal agencies “don’t want to deal with retiree quals.” LEOSA quals are based on the retirees state of residence.

Federal LE instructors, whether FLETC or Agency certified are not state certified to run state qualification courses. I’m not aware of any federal agency that does retiree quals.

Sure they can It's even the first category that you're allowed to use as a retired dude.

(4)during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual,

I'm almost certain it's not a systematic thing but rather a one off.....but I know for a fact that FIs from various field offices at my agency have run quals for retired agents. They just give them letterhead stating they qualified on our course fire on such and such date.

If that's not an option, then you can go do the more commonly available state option,

...the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;

But none of that means you can't qualify with the federal agency you retired from.

[HCM]

Sure they can It's even the first category that you're allowed to use as a retired dude.



I'm almost certain it's not a systematic thing but rather a one off.....but I know for a fact that FIs from various field offices at my agency have run quals for retired agents. They just give them letterhead stating they qualified on our course fire on such and such date.

If that's not an option, then you can go do the more commonly available state option,



But none of that means you can't qualify with the federal agency you retired from.

According to our agency legal counsel the first section just says you can use the federal agency course of fire instead of the states course of fire but regardless of which course of fire is used it has to be administered by a state certified instructor.

by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;

As for just cranking out qualification letters on letterhead you can do what ever you think your career can handle.

[TGS]

According to our agency legal counsel the first section just says you can use the federal agency course of fire instead of the states course of fire but regardless of which course of fire is used it has to be administered by a state certified instructor.

That might be the take by your agency, but that isn't what the law says; and, this isn't the only thing your agency has a take on LEOSA which is inconsistent with the law. The law clearly separates the two concepts, that being your former agency and a qualification by a state certified instructor. Either the legal counsel glossed over it and didn't give a shit, or they were just looking for a lazy out on how to develop a policy that relinquishes the agency of any responsibility.

ETA: I just had a criminal defense attorney read it and his response was, "Clear as day. Crystal. How is there even a question? I'd like to see them try..."

(the last part referring to coming after a prospective/theoretical client)

[ECS686]

That might be the take by your agency, but that isn't what the law says; and, this isn't the only thing your agency has a take on LEOSA which is inconsistent with the law. The law clearly separates the two concepts, that being your former agency and a qualification by a state certified instructor. Either the legal counsel glossed over it and didn't give a shit, or they were just looking for a lazy out on how to develop a policy that relinquishes the agency of any responsibility.

ETA: I just had a criminal defense attorney read it and his response was, "Clear as day. Crystal. How is there even a question? I'd like to see them try..."

(the last part referring to coming after a prospective/theoretical client)

Just respectfully discussing. How is that any different than the Fed agencies FLETC certified instructors that qualify the agency staff. As have zero state quals to teach state level yet they still carry off duty?

Thats sort of my issue with states that wont allow retired or current agency instructors even being able to get certified through said state.

And most agencies only cover active staff for an on duty incidents. DOJ Attorneys have driven to our classes that you carry under LEOSA your not on duty and we the Agency won't cover you (outside an overzealous LEO teying to arrest you for carrying etc)

Again just conversing not arguing anything.