Rip off. Big Brother will eventually simply mandate a chip in your head or hand and it will cost nothing...Originally Posted by Whirlwind06
Well, ALMOST nothing. Nothing you can really put a price on, at any rate.
It will be so con-VEEEEEEN-ient and foolproof that we will be deemed crazy if we do not accept it. And crazy people can't own guns.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
You needed to have a reasonably competent firing grasp of the revolver to make the gun "live." If the hammer was cocked, the Magna-Trigger was already bypassed and whoever got hold of it had one free shot.
Magna-Trigger was invented in the mid-1970s by an eccentric non-gun-guy genius whose name actually was Joe Smith and who was inspired by reading of cops killed with their own service revolvers. It was not widely adopted in LE because (A) installation required cutting a chunk out of the front strap of the grip-frame, voiding the S&W warranty; (B) the tsunami of duty pistols replacing service revolvers was on the horizon; and (C) It didn't pass the "must be idiot-proof" requirement of certain departments where, having seen cops report to work with empty holsters, the bosses didn't trust them to wear a ring on the middle finger of each hand.
As to the grappling element: In the mid-80s when I was teaching Officer Survival classes with Ray Chapman at Chapman Academy, and a majority of the cops were still carrying revolvers, my Magna-Trigger Model 66 with Andy Cannon street action was my teaching gun. The same question came up. With the gun checked six times over as unloaded, Ray and I experimented. Ray was 6'3', 220 pounds, and could bury the needle of a hand dynamometer at its 220 pounds maximum pressure with either hand and still be applying more force. We found that the only thing that could breach it was if the opponent was very strong, performing a walk-through disarm (both hands on gun, or one hand on gun and the other on the Good Guy's wrist, and driving the muzzle upward and the gun straight up the defending arm, and the Good Guy resisted with static crush grip instead of pulling the gun straight back toward himself. This would literally bend the frame enough that the cut for the module in the front strap enlarged, allowing the module to slip down just enough that its steel "flag" no longer blocked the rebound slide. At that point, whoever gained control of the gun could make it shoot.
(Before repairing the damaged gun and making the Magna-Trigger work again, we tested it with assorted .357 Magnum ammo. Despite the bent frame, the mainspring still had enough oomph to light off Magnum primers 100%.)
I acquired the Magna-Trigger 66 in 1978, frankly with a view toward proving the idea was bullshit. It proved me wrong. With proper stocks, and a halfway decent grasp, it never failed me in many thousands of rounds. I shot it once at Bianchi Cup, and all 172 rounds lit off fine in the pressure cooker stress of that match.
There WERE some sub-optimal stocks for it. Finger-grooved grips could turn the flat face of the inward-facing cobalt samarium magnet on the ring just enough that it didn't activate the inner magnet with reverse polarity to spin the flag block out of the way of the rebound slide, and you'd have to readjust your grip before you could fire. Some Pachmayr grip styles of the period had steel inserts which adversely effected the magnetic operation as well; Pachmayr actually made a special run of these for Magna-Trigger guns with aluminum instead of steel inserts. I carried mine with a set of those. Most people just went with smooth-front wood stocks.
IMO, the Magna-Trigger remains the only "smart gun" that ever actually WORKED. I carried it for a while in uniform in a thumb-break reverse-rake Bucheimer Estes holster, figuring it had enough internal "snatch -resistance" that I could go with a speed rig instead of a security holster. For the most part, as JCN has correctly noted, it was my bedside gun when my kids weren't yet at the age of responsibility. It still dwells in a gun safe in case my little great-grand kids should come to visit and stay over.
"Back in the day," people balked at paying the price of the conversion. Here at P-F, a bunch of us spend thousands to have a custom pistol that groups in one inch instead of two at 25 yards; what Tarnhelm (www.tarnhelm.com) charges for a gun that no one but you or someone you designate can make go off is pretty damn cheap at the price.
Rick Devoid at Tarnhelm bought the rights to Joe Smith's MagnaTrigger from his estate after he passed. Forgive me, Joe, but Rick's workmanship is MUCH better than the original, and he can also give you a damn good action tune while your revolver is with him.
Aarrgghh, typo alert: that was 192 for Bianchi Cup.
@Mas
Your books are what inspired me to search out that solution and I bought the M66 from Ricky and liked it so much that I had an 8-shot 327PC (N-frame) converted too.
It was my diaper bag gun for years.
Thanks for all your teachings, Mas. You’ve touched more lives than you will ever know.
Kind words appreciated, young brother.
Another thumbs up on the Magna-Trigger. After a trip to LFI in 1993, I had Rick install it on a 4” M19. He told me my gun got his last set of the Joe Smith commissioned aluminum-frame Pachmayrs. I had the gun rendered DAO in order to avoid the cocked gun deactivation possibility. I then shot the gun at a bunch of matches including a couple of NTIs at Gunsite and an RTI in Pennsylvania.
The device has worked perfectly from the outset. It can be removed if you wish and the gun will operate fine. I have shot a fair amount of plus P .38s in it without the device installed when I didn’t want to wear the rings, and there has been no frame bending due to lack of support at the resulting gap.
With the safety installed, I had a problem on one stage at Gunsite which started with the shooters hands in a bucket of very soapy water. I suppose the idea was to simulate bloody hands. Under magnum recoil the ring turned sideways on my middle finger and the magnet would no longer disengage the safety.
That was the only time I encountered such a problem. I’ve fired a lot of rounds through the gun since then and the rings have never twisted no matter how wet or sweaty my fingers.
An unanticipated issue turned out to be the biggest negative with the system. I found that handling a bare credit card while wearing the magnetic rings would kill the card. Mere handling of the closed wallet didn’t kill the card but to make use of the card at an ATM I would have to remove the rings and rely upon a D- or J-frame backup for security.
Perhaps current cards are not a problem. I haven’t carried the gun for a couple of decades so I haven’t revisited the issue. However, I greatly value this tried and true revolver for its anticipated utility as I look forward to attaining the status of a doting grandfather who despite his best intentions is not immune to the possibility of dozing off in his easy chair.
Thank you guys. I haven't been on here in a few days, between work and in the middle of a move.
This was posted on the Glock forum.
https://machine.tech/
It looks interesting.
Not a smart gun, but a smart trigger (but then again that’s what the Magna-trigger was also).
I like that the Apple Watch can be a proximity key. Although that doesn’t prevent the gun from being used against you.
I ordered, because I’m curious and have more money than good sense.
My wife selected the Magna-trigger because of kiddo safety and also because if she were disarmed, it wouldn’t be easily used against her.
This smart trigger might be a different usage. Maybe an RV gun or something. Will have to see how fast and intuitive it is. Will post a review when I get it if people are interested.
The NJ Law exempts police and LEO from the requirement. That tells you all you need to know about what they expect from the expected reliability of these "smart guns." Even if they were technically reliable, there are a lot of things that could conceivably go wrong.
Bottom line, a defensive firearm is a piece of life saving equipment that needs to work in all types of adverse, unexpected circumstances. It should not be subject to battery problems, hacking, wifi interference, and such. I want an I-phone with the reliability of a Kalashnikov, not the other way around.
Exactly, but with the popularity of biometric locks/safes and the users of these have promoted the acceptance of this technology over the years. Kinda hard to say that it won't be accepted on the gun itself at this point and put the Genie back in the bottle.
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