And a number of rural Sheriff’s Offices here in VA still carry .40 and have recently bought new pistols in that caliber.Originally Posted by HeavyDuty
Our neighbor to the west issues the full size P320 in .40.
Hope they have enough on hand for future growth and inventory shrinkage from retirements...
That's a good point... Although I pocket-carry my Shield 45 at times, I cannot do it in all of my pants.
Let me start by admitting I know NOTHING compared to the vast majority of the members here.
That being said, I’ve tried to learn as much as I can about terminal performance and I thought I learned that a good 9mm bullet, take GD 124+p was basically the equivalent of .40 and.45. I admit in the deep woods or around automobiles there are reasons to pick one over the other but capacity never enters those equations.
When I see people say they are going to.40 or .45 if 10 round limits become the law, my mind interprets that as really saying.40 and.45 have better terminal performance than 9mm if capacity is the same. If it’s not true for 1 bullet, is it really true for 10?
Please be gentle, I’m trying to learn.
I know it’s not a popular opinion but the P320 in 45 is a solid option. If they’d make an X grip module for it, I’d be in trouble.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
Doesn’t Hornady’s polymer-tipped offerings like Critical Duty and Critical Defense help prevent such plugging?
“Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”
It's not that the 9mm is every bit equal to 40 and 45 but that it is close enough to them that the extra capacity, lower recoil and usually lower cost makes it the better choice for many people. I carried a 40 cal Glock 23 from the mid 90s when they came out up until I retired in 2016. Early on it was because 40 loads were better than 9 and later because I got free carry and practice ammo. It is the same size and weight as a Glock 19. Once I had to pay for my own training and carry ammo I switched to 9mm. There is also more loads to choose from now that work in 9mm than 1990s and early 00's.
Some people prefer 40 or 45 over 9mm for their circumstances that may include heavy clothing or large predatory animals being encountered more. 45 almost always requires a larger and heavier gun and always has much lower capacity in similar sized guns so the trade offs between 9mm and 45 seem more pronounced to me. That said when picking the best ammo and gun when all are available it is mostly splitting hairs between them for most people. Lastly switching calibers is easiest with a 40 if other calibers are available or prefered as I mentioned in a previous post in this thread so there is some added benefit there also.
You're basically correct. I think people are saying that given a 10-round limit, they want to squeeze every last little iota of "oomph" out of their gun as possible even if, in practical terms, it doesn't make that much of a difference.
There's a bunch of other factors at play, too (gun size, hand size, recoil, cost, etc.) that will be different for each person.
From Older Offspring after a discussion of coffee:
"If it doesn't come from the Kaffa province of Ethiopia, it's just hot roasted-bean juice."
I don't believe an AWB or mag limitation is as near on the horizon as some others. Given one though, I wouldn't make a change. Current gear is sufficient for my needs, baselined, and spares are stocked. When I test truth and revisit other guns and calibers, my performance is quantifiably poorer. Not uncorrectable, but the difference exists and is more significant as guns shrink. And that difference is likely to offset any potential ballistic gain. Clogged JHPs occur, but thinking about a bunch of shootings here in the northern tier I think we give it too much airtime. Especially with some of the current bullet tech available.
Last edited by ST911; 01-23-2021 at 12:43 PM.
الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب
Recognizing that cartridge improvements in 9mm have diminished the appeal of .40 for most users in most situations, I still like the caliber for some uses and in some guns. To some extent I think one thing that contributed to its fall from grace is folks buying small, lightweight guns in the caliber. I kind of shake my head when someone gets a Glock 27, loads it with 155gr Gold Dots and then hates on the caliber in general because of recoil.
In a mid-large metal gun, like a P229, P226, S&W 4006, etc., it is really not so bad., especially so with the 180gr loads. A few times a year, I spend time in the mountains where there are potential black bear and mountain lion risks and I feel just a bit better carrying a bonded 180gr .40 instead of my usual 9mm. Perhaps there is no legit basis for that feeling, but there it is. I also feel that the .40, with proper ammo choice, can offer potentially better performance against auto glass and some other intermediate barriers, for those where that is a significant issue.
The .40 is no “less” a cartridge than it was when it was the caliber everybody wanted to carry. But, I agree that overall, for most people and most uses, the 9mm is a better choice. There is also some “romantic” appeal to the 40 caliber for me. I recall reading about how Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith and others thought that a .40 caliber 200gr bullet at about 1000 fps would be the perfect self-defense/law enforcement round, and have read of the huge popularity of the 38-40 (similar properties to the current .40) back in the old days.
This .40 idea gave birth to the .41 magnum police load and the S&W Model 58, adopted or issued by San Antonio P.D. and San Francisco P.D. among others. Sometime later, a 10mm 200gr bullet at about 1000fps became a pet project of Jeff Cooper, who felt it would be superior to his beloved .45 ACP., and then of course, the 10mm was approved by the FBI after extensive testing. The 10mm that did so well in testing and was adopted was not the full-power 10mm, but a 180-gr. Sierra JHP bullet loaded to 950 f.p.s.. That handload performed almost as well as the full-charge 10 mm in FBI tests of penetration and expansion and “far exceeded our expectations,” according to Urey Patrick.
I know, sentiment is a poor excuse for choosing a defensive/LE caliber, but I find it interesting to ponder over a nice Scotch in an evening and the truth remains; no one claims the .40 S&W isn’t a solid performer, it is just that the 9mm has stepped up its game and does so without the negative aspects of the .40.
But, still…
ETA corrected some typos
For those that believe the 40 is superior why not carry it now?
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