I have owned Glocks and VP9's with OEM and aftermarket triggers and do not own a Timney trigger but from what I am reading the Timney trigger in a Glock will be much lighter than a OEM VP9 trigger and possibly lighter than a VP9 with a Grey Guns Trigger.Originally Posted by spyderco monkey
The gun is an RTF2 G17 frame with a G34 upper. The slide has an Apex firing pin stop and stock FPS spring. Striker spring is stock. The connector is a Ghost Edge.
This is the most preposterously light and smooth Glock trigger I have ever tried!
With my lyman digital trigger scale, on average out of 10 pulls I was getting 2lbs 3oz. With the Ghost Edge connector, there is literally NO wall. Just a true rolling break. No hitch in the pull or anything. It's pretty insane.
Trigger with pre-travel stop fully released (no reduction)
Trigger at rest, pre-travel stop fully released (no reduction)
The trigger bar still sits in the drop safety ledge. If pressed downward, it does not move the sear. The drop safety appears to be intact.
Trigger partially pulled
This is the extent to which the trigger can be pulled before it is fully off the drop safety ledge and begins to press the sear downwards.
Trigger and sear fully depressed
This is the extent to which the sear depresses. If you reference the back of the slot for the drop safety, between this and the previous picture you can get an idea of the degree of travel.
Trigger
These measurements are for the circular cutout, on the left side of the trigger, for holding the new trigger return spring.
Measurement Millimeters Inches Nipple Diameter 5.12 0.2016 Nipple Depth 2.84 0.1118
Trigger Spring
The trigger spring is a 90 degree deflection angle left hand torsion spring with 2.25 active coils.
Measurement Millimeters Inches Wire Diameter 0.78 0.031 Outer Diameter 7.20 0.283 Inner Diameter 5.64 0.222 Leg 1 Length 12.25 0.4823 Leg 2 Length 12.25 0.4823 Body Length 2.38 0.0937
Based on these specs, and without knowing the spring material, these are the spring rate values I calculated using an online calculator (seems to be a variance of ~6-8% +/- depending on spring material):
Music Wire ASTM A228
Rate per degree : 0.013 In-Lbs/Degree
Spring Rate (or Spring constant) per 360 degrees, k360 degrees: 4.524 In-Lbs/360 Degrees
Maximum torque possible, Torquemax : 0.635 In-Lbs
SS302
Rate per degree : 0.012 In-Lbs/Degree
Spring Rate (or Spring constant) per 360 degrees, k360 degrees: 4.223 In-Lbs/360 Degrees
Maximum torque possible, Torquemax : 0.549 In-Lbs
Sear Spring
The sear spring is a compression spring with closed, ground ends. It has 5.5 active coils and, by my calculation, has a spring rate of approximately 31.254 Lbs/In. I disassembled the sear housing by driving the rear pin from left to right (left as if you were looking down the sights), as the hole on the left looked to be ever so slightly smaller (could be wrong).
Take note of the sear design. To clarify, there is nothing that restricts sear movement. In the same vein as the SIG P320, theoretically it is possible that significant enough inertia from a drop could cause the sear to bounce enough to release the striker, independent of the trigger bar moving. As others have found this trigger does not appear to disable the firing pin safety. So the FPS would still be engaged and likely prevent the striker from fully falling.
Measurement Millimeters Inches Overall Length 8.58 0.338 Outer Diameter 3.18 0.125 Wire Diameter 0.52 0.02047
Planned Mods
As I cannot leave well enough alone and must mod everything, here's a few ideas I'm planning on implementing. I fully realize this is a competition trigger. I am, however, curious what the effect would be of increasing the spring rates and increasing the trigger pull weight to say 4-6lbs. Is it possible it could become even safer for use outside of competition? Who knows. Either way, the search has started for several replacement compression and torsion springs.
I already have an idea for a different sear design that could potentially prevent any sear movement until the trigger is depressed. I won't go into that for now, but it occurred to me when looking at the pics above of the distance the trigger bar travels before depressing the sear. There might be enough room to have a sear that has an L-shaped front "hook" that grabs the top of the front of the trigger bar, preventing the sear from moving.
Modification Concerns
Based on my calculations, the sear spring rate is ~31lb/in. Considering the small size and minimal room, spring options are going to be limited. I am a bit concerned at the idea of substantially increasing this already high rate, and the effects that could have on increased wear of other components. For example, wear on the trigger housing including the connector, connector hole, the trigger pin itself, etc.
Contrast this with the fact the compression coil spring in an NY1 trigger has a rate of 17.591lb/in (I have a TON of self-compiled data on NY triggers I'll be releasing over the next month or two hopefully). Weirdly, the NY2 rate is 31.474lb/in, while the NY1 Black (gen5) is only 4.061lb/in.
I have the same concerns on the trigger spring side. Will a substantially increased rate wear significantly at the trigger spring "nipple"? Could the increased force on the upper leg against the locking block pin cause excess wear on the pin holes? Maybe I'm just overthinking this stuff, but modding is fun!
Administrator for PatRogers.org
Great post!
Do you think the striker would catch on the trigger bar if inertia were to depress the sear but the trigger had not moved? From what I can see probably not, but I don't have a comparison Glock trigger bar to see how high it rides above the drop safety cruciform groove.
I haven't tested that yet, but I'll see if there's a way I can with a slide test backplate.
Administrator for PatRogers.org
From my sample, no. The bar sits to low and doesnt make any contact with the striker at any time. With an armorers plate, when i push the sear down with a small flat head, the striker drops and hits the striker block.
I shot an OZ9 with the Timney yesterday and I will say the trigger is fantastic.
Any roughness between the trigger bar and the striker block are really noticed since its not cocking the striker at all on take-up. I wouldn't mind a heavier trigger return spring either.
Last edited by P226SAOFan; 02-05-2021 at 07:15 PM.
This video doesn't give me the warm fuzzies about using this trigger in a carry gun.
The unrestricted sear movement is the same theoretical issue/deficiency in the P320 platform. I would hope at some point, as new platforms are developed, that manufacturers would design striker sears to use chunks of steel that physically restrict movement unless the trigger is pulled. I'm a layman, but in my mind this is such a simple thing that should be able to entirely eliminate a class of safety issues. For example, why in God's name does the P320 manual safety not have a lug to physically prevent the sear from moving?
Administrator for PatRogers.org
That sear dropping is exactly the concern and that cut away model is super cool! Now he just needs to beat it with a mallet some and see what happens.
But essentially it is nearly the same as a PPQ/VP9/M&P/320 design.
I feel like this topic needs a snarky tactical insider style post header.
"Competition trigger sold for competition presented by competition shooter Chane Soley to shoot competition" Local resident wants to know "is it's for duty use"
This trigger is built to be in guns that are "hot" for about 1-5 total minutes a day in a somewhat controlled environment.
He has an interesting point, but I am getting some mixed messages from him. He goes on to say that all the other safeties are still in place which tells me that the firing pin block is still doing it's job (a FPB is the main "drop safety in many designs).
I agree that a drop safe gun is better, but nothing about this video is saying to me that is is not. In the same Johnny Glock video that he referenced, JG does a number of test drops without issue. While this guy only speculates what could happen. I suspect that the spring tension on the striker itself is also applying pressure to that sear which may be what prevents it from releasing in the event of a drop inline with the sear spring. . The issue with the trigger return from what I have seen else where don't happen during actual use. More testing is needed
Not that is doesn't happen before a recall, but I doubt a large company who has a long history making triggers would release something that defeats any safety mechanisms of a factory gun unless they like playing with fire.
Last edited by Artemas2; 02-17-2021 at 07:25 AM.
There is a set screw to adjust pretravel of the trigger. To assure that the trigger safety properly and reliably resets it may require backing that screw a tad.
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