im strong, i can run faster than train
Hey, any of the super fancy 3D targets at those classes have heads that tilt on the proper axis?
The thing with a head is that the point of axis rotation is really far back and the face hangs off. So trying to pick your target based on the face is a fools errand. You literally have to be aiming at the brainstem and the face is where it is.
Those are excellent, thanks for posting.
Meanwhile, back to the OP...
A good benchmark in "shooting fast and accurate" is Gabe White's signature Technical Skills Test. Funny you mention six rounds; that is one of the tests (Bill Drill).
For the sake of having an objective of "what is good" to discuss, these are defined at Gabe's web site, here:
http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/tec...-skills-tests/
Here are the rules:
All are shot on a single USPSA Metric or IDPA target or similar, with either a 4″ circle or 3×5″ card added to the head, at a distance of 7 yards. The shooter can start with hands at sides, hands at high torso, or a hands-up surrender position. At the start signal, the shooter draws and engages the target exactly as required by the drill. No extra shots are allowed. Your score is your time, with penalties added for shots outside the A/-0 zone. B/C/-1 zone hits add .25 seconds per shot. D-zone hits add 1 second per shot. Misses add 2 seconds per shot. Head shots that land in the body count as misses. Body shots that land in the head count as lucky shots and are scored."
Fora "pin" in Gabe's class, the maximum Bill Drill times are:
Dark Pin - 3.5s
Light Pin - 2.5s
Turbo Pin - 2.00s
My best time on the Bill Drill in the class I took with Gabe was 3.49s, shot from an open USPSA rig with my Gen 5 Glock 19.
So, with that, how fast do you shoot a 1.5" group at 6 yards?
That's also a bit of an unknown. So let's introduce a common "accuracy" standard, shooting groups at 25 yards, using an NRA B-8. I myself work on that exercise as part of the metrics I've chosen to track my shooting. My best score lifetime is an 87-1X, again with my Glock 19.
So, with that in mind, have you shot a group at 25 yards? If so, what was your score? Based on observing what I would call "good" shooters here, putting 10 rounds in the black (5.54" circle), standing two handed, under ideal conditions, untimed, is pretty good shooting.
Last edited by RJ; 01-13-2021 at 03:40 PM.
I’m going to disagree with you, but you do you.
I’m guessing you didn’t see the video in that it wasn’t slow fire aimed shots.
Three separate runs off a transition.
Seems like you might want to pick some better ammo, though.
I was wondering when the nit pickers would arrive! Through the medulla into the cerebellum so if you’re lateral to the small vertical stripe of actual brainstem you’ll still hit important basic functional tissue.
You guys, man.
Okay gents. Here you go. I picked MRIs so that it would be anatomically correct.
The MRIs I show here are with varying degrees of neck flexion (chin down, like in the target).
The conventional “T-box” does not hit the medulla and you’d have to go through the forehead to get to the brainstem if they’re tucked.
If your ammo can’t get through cortical bone, you should probably go up from 32ACP.
Mild chin tuck.
Severe chin tuck. See how far up you’d have to aim?
I could live without all these technical threads devolving into ridiculous nitpicking about how JCN is maybe, kind of, technically, a little bit wrong on some point. We've now got two pages of how he maybe didn't shoot a target in a rapid transition drill in the right part of the face.
This. Or questioning his training credentials. I don't think it matters how you get to that point. I advise people to get the best training they can because I don't think the math pencils out on getting there through self study. It's certainly doable though. JCN is a great new contributor. He could've maybe picked a better first thread to post but so what.
Perhaps I'm the guilty party for criticizing a target. I didn't want to cause a crap storm. Over the years I've seen many shooters improperly target the head. Yes some because the round did not go exactly were they intended but in many cases a improper understanding of handgun projectile performance v. the human head and anatomy.
One can draw all the lines they want through sagittal MRI images. Handgun rounds don't follow lines. Plenty of handgun rounds that have impacted above the eyebrows have not penetrated the human skull. If you want to damage to the brain you have to breach the skull. The window of entry is widely recognized as the area between the eyebrows and the base of the nose and between and including the eyes for a face on target.
Additionally it's tough enough to hit a credit card sized target on an uncooperative animated being. Picking or having access to the exact angle to a specific sweet spot buried within is not feasible.