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Thread: accuracy vs speed

  1. #1

    accuracy vs speed

    I am practising various areas of shooting. Mainly first on accuracy. But quesions are how to balance the practice to concentrating on accuracy and speed. For example, if on a 6 yard shooting with my Glock 19 gen 4 with an accuracy most shots within 1 to 1.5 inch of the target, should I move more into practice of speed? And how accurate can I expect to become with "resonable" practice? (I know that is a very vaque question).

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by petergently View Post
    I am practising various areas of shooting. Mainly first on accuracy. But quesions are how to balance the practice to concentrating on accuracy and speed. For example, if on a 6 yard shooting with my Glock 19 gen 4 with an accuracy most shots within 1 to 1.5 inch of the target, should I move more into practice of speed? And how accurate can I expect to become with "resonable" practice? (I know that is a very vaque question).
    Lots of drills force you to balance speed and accuracy, but it's easy to get so fast that you cause problems for yourself. Search for posts by Dagga Boy, Wayne Dobbs, John Hearne, GJM, and others about response times and outrunning your headlights. Also search for LAPD D Platoon qualification courses and the justifications for their standards.


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  3. #3
    Runs on Bare Metal Guerrero's Avatar
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    Welcom to the forum! Have a read on this thread:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....and-Assessment
    "What's Occam's razor?"
    "Probably a razor that belongs to some dude named Occam."

  4. #4
    I would spend some money on a good instructor to start. In addition to helping you with a lot of the questions you've posed, they can also help you with determining what is a reasonable standard to shoot for and what's possible with a modern semiautomatic pistol. It's possible to get pretty good with research and practice but you will end up spending more money on ammo and time than a good instructor costs, especially with current ammo prices.

  5. #5
    Wag more, Bark less RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    Welcom to the forum! Have a read on this thread:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....and-Assessment
    Another thread worth perusing:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....igamiak+vision

    ...and one of my treasured quotes from Gabe, who posted this in my Training Journal: (emphasis mine)

    "And an important seed to plant in your mind now, is that you ultimately need to divorce the concepts of time and accuracy from each other. Eradicate the idea that to be faster, you'll have to be less accurate, or to be more accurate, you'll have to be slower. Or that by taking more time, it's going to result in more accuracy. None of those are necessarily the case. To be better, you must get more. More of both. Trading them back and forth, exchanging one for the other, just speaks to applying discipline at your present skill level, not making your skill level greater.

    It's not that there isn't a practical relationship between time and accuracy in some instances, it's that it's a limiting way to think about it. Think in terms of being more careful or more aggressive with the shooting, and let the time be what it will be."
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught.
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  6. #6
    50 foot target. 8” circle.

    From a draw, three shots.

    If I’m trying to get all shots just barely in, then 1.68 total seconds. Watch to the end of the video to see the target.



    If I have to guarantee all shots in (look at the group size at the end of the video) then 2.15 total seconds.



    Slow fire just trains one aspect of shooting.
    A very important aspect, but not comprehensive.

    Find your limits (the drill) is excellent. Push speed and accuracy, but also internalize the relationship for your current skill level.

    The same skills that allow that at 50’ on an 8” are the same skills that give this on 1-2” targets at 4 yards.

    Last edited by JCN; 01-13-2021 at 12:05 PM.

  7. #7
    Another good reference is this series: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/c...ooting-better/

    One to try: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/s...ter-5x5-drill/

    Many of the drills here have speed and accuracy goals listed. https://pistol-training.com/drills

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Another thread worth perusing:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....igamiak+vision

    ...and one of my treasured quotes from Gabe, who posted this in my Training Journal: (emphasis mine)

    "And an important seed to plant in your mind now, is that you ultimately need to divorce the concepts of time and accuracy from each other. Eradicate the idea that to be faster, you'll have to be less accurate, or to be more accurate, you'll have to be slower. Or that by taking more time, it's going to result in more accuracy. None of those are necessarily the case. To be better, you must get more. More of both. Trading them back and forth, exchanging one for the other, just speaks to applying discipline at your present skill level, not making your skill level greater.

    It's not that there isn't a practical relationship between time and accuracy in some instances, it's that it's a limiting way to think about it. Think in terms of being more careful or more aggressive with the shooting, and let the time be what it will be."
    @RJ IMHO you bolded the wrong part of the quote.
    This is the crux of it.

    Speed versus accuracy trade offs just show what you can do right now.

    Improve on your trigger press mechanics and your dynamic vision and everything will improve.

    Vision is key. See what you need to see to get the hits you need to get.

    That’s why shot calling is such a powerful tool.

  9. #9
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    JCN

    1. I am not as fast as you.

    2. on the TSO #2 you posted- if the goal was to be all in- you missed 6 of the 11 shots attempted (clockwise from the far left t1-miss, t2-2 misses, not all in, t3-2 misses not all in, t4-all in,
    t5-1 miss, not all in, 1 inch dot -all in.)

    if the goal was to be good enough to land effective hits at 4 yrds-well done.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by vcdgrips View Post
    JCN

    1. I am not as fast as you.

    2. on the TSO #2 you posted- if the goal was to be all in- you missed 6 of the 11 shots attempted (clockwise from the far left t1-miss, t2-2 misses, not all in, t3-2 misses not all in, t4-all in,
    t5-1 miss, not all in, 1 inch dot -all in.)

    if the goal was to be good enough to land effective hits at 4 yrds-well done.
    Ha. If the goal was to be all in, then I wouldn’t have posted that as a representative video.

    For a number of drills like this, I use USPSA vision / speed / accuracy trade offs.

    Which means the target is “A” zone and close misses are “C” zone and far misses are “D” or penalty.

    My vision speed trade off for USPSA at my current level and currently shooting Major power means that A = 5 points and C = 4 points. So close Cs are acceptable... if they’re fast enough.

    So for the 2” circles, imagine an extra 1” border in all directions.

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    Does that make sense?

    In the interest of this thread, being able to hit that accuracy at speed means I can hit full A zones on multiple full size targets at 7-10 yards at that speed.

    But it’s more efficient training to do it up close. Less pasting, easier targets to replace, quicker resetting of targets and so on. It’s not about 4 yards. It’s about how fast and accurate you can be. It scales out to larger and farther targets quite well.

    Also, in most scoring disciplines any grease ring touching the target is counted as in. Certainly for USPSA and IDPA it is.

    So clockwise from the left it would be:
    AC, AC, AC, 2A, 2A.
    Last edited by JCN; 01-13-2021 at 01:10 PM.

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