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Thread: Things to think about besides triggers, sights, and gear.

  1. #11
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    ...In BJJ, that's not a lot of time. You can train for 4 months and still get your ass whipped by a guy who is bigger and stronger. A fight is a "come as you are" event...
    Frankly, one can get his or her ass kicked regardless of their level or rating...but I agree with you that training and fitness is (by and large) a benefit. Complacency is not.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Frankly, one can get his or her ass kicked regardless of their level or rating...but I agree with you that training and fitness is (by and large) a benefit. Complacency is not.
    A fair point. But I feel like it's not very controversial to assert that the less training you have, the harder the ass whoopin is likely to be.

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  3. #13
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER_STL View Post
    I’d like to ask a few leading questions to milk more out of you and BBI. The answers might understandably be, “take my classes and find out”.

    1. Overall in your opinion, how did he (the victim) handle the situation? He appears to be doing a lot of things right.
    2. If the attacker decided to rush him open-handed, would he have been justified in shooting him?
    3. Was there a point in time where it would have been more appropriate to reholster his gun (assuming his holster didn’t come out) and reach for something less-lethal rather than continuing to hold him at gunpoint?
    #1: I think he did really well overall. I suspect he stayed put over concerns about his car or just an OODA loop issue. Once he'd successfully disengaged, he could have continued to carefully create distance, fully disengage, and call police. Then he wouldn't have had to deal with hippy-camera guy and the chances for another reengagement would have, of course, been diminished. Other than that I don't think there's anything I'd critique with the information we have beyond what I already stated.

    #2: I suspect this will vary state to state. In *my* state he could have shot him in the head and been fine criminally and immune to civil suits. An attack on an occupied vehicle can be met with deadly force. In other states this may not be true, or disparity of force issues must be present.

    #3: I don't see the point in holding him at gunpoint. You haven't called for help. No cavalry is coming. You aren't the police trying to affect an arrest. Why hold him at gun point vs disengaging? Now that you're in the street, you have a higher burden of proof for a self-defense claim. Disparity of force issues now come in to play. The suspect's furtive movements, statements, etc. come in to play. It's tough for me to say when he should have holstered because I don't know his skill level, how hurt he was from the earlier blows, etc...but if you aren't willing to shoot the guy, it's time to at least consider holstering. Maybe you decide to, maybe you decide low ready, maybe you decide to keep pointing, but break the OODA loop of just continuing to point and actively assess the situation and decide based on that assessment vs just inertia.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    No one has mentioned this:

    2:30 "he runs around my car and rips the door open..."

    If you're not in the process of entering/exiting, your car should be locked.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ER_STL View Post
    I’d like to ask a few leading questions to milk more out of you and BBI. The answers might understandably be, “take my classes and find out”.

    1. Overall in your opinion, how did he (the victim) handle the situation? He appears to be doing a lot of things right.
    2. If the attacker decided to rush him open-handed, would he have been justified in shooting him?
    3. Was there a point in time where it would have been more appropriate to reholster his gun (assuming his holster didn’t come out) and reach for something less-lethal rather than continuing to hold him at gunpoint?

    1. Overall I think he did a really good job of "riding the brakes" throughout the duration of the incident. I think he stayed in the moment and everything he did was measured. I like seeing that with people that carry guns.

    2. Like BBI said that's gonna be a state by state issue but it's something that comes up in ECQC all the time as we simulate that very issue quite a bit. There's not a clear cut answer. In places where there may be a duty to retreat and in the current political climate you may very well get indicted/prosecuted for shooting someone who rushes you. One thing that would have been in his favor was that he was already unexpectedly and violently assaulted in his vehicle in front of his home.

    3. I actually get people that do that with inert pepper spray in ECQC all the time. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. When the person taking the spray simulates a pause it can buy time for escape or even end the situation altogether. Other times when someone rushes at the moment spray is deployed both parties end up fighting contaminated over a gun that he knows that you have. No free lunch but having something between "a harsh word and a gunshot" as Chuck Haggard puts it, is a good idea I think.

    I'll also offer a mild apology for the tone of my post, as when I copy and pasted that from my FB, I had just come out of a discussion with some NRA instructor types who think a gun is the answer to everything and are very "line in the sand" about "what is and isn't" and had offered some TERRIBLE advice. My mistake was engaging with people who I know don't have any tenure or experience in life much less firearms training.

    Some of that carried over here and it shouldn't have.

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    No one has mentioned this:

    2:30 "he runs around my car and rips the door open..."

    If you're not in the process of entering/exiting, your car should be locked.
    This, so very much.

    Auto-unlocking has, of course, become a normal thing, at least with vehicles having automatic transmissions. We can/should learn to re-lock, immediately, as needed, whenever we hear that unlocking sound.

    Of course, even a locked door still has an easily-shattered window, depending upon whether the attacker has an appropriate object to direct and concentrate the force of the blow.
    Last edited by Rex G; 01-09-2021 at 07:46 AM.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    This, so very much.

    Auto-unlocking has, of course, become a normal thing, at least with vehicles having automatic transmissions. We can/should learn to re-lock, immediately, as needed, whenever we hear that unlocking sound.

    Of course, even a locked door still has an easily-shattered window, depending upon whether the attacker has an appropriate object to direct and concentrate the force of the blow.
    I would say not to rely on the auto lock. My wife's car has to start moving before they lock automatically. The window can be shattered, but we've all seen a lot of window shattering attempts fail. At the very least it buys you a little time during which you can start driving away or access whatever tools you need.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  8. #18
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    I would say not to rely on the auto lock. My wife's car has to start moving before they lock automatically. The window can be shattered, but we've all seen a lot of window shattering attempts fail. At the very least it buys you a little time during which you can start driving away or access whatever tools you need.
    I think window shattering will be tougher in the future as well, as manufacturers go to the same glass in side windows as in windshields. Many cars already have it, and I seem to recall it being mandatory going forward after a certain point. The laminated glass is *much* harder to break then the tempered glass, as many here probably know first hand.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    I would say not to rely on the auto lock. My wife's car has to start moving before they lock automatically.
    You might be able to change that. I changed mine to lock when I put it in gear. Trouble is that it will unlock when you put it in park.

  10. #20
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BN View Post
    Trouble is that it will unlock when you put it in park.
    This.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

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