I think you are remembering something else. It would take a fairly competent gunsmith would be able to covert an S&W to a roller return slide design. The differences in design between an S&W and an MR73 to have the roller return slide are not trivial. There's more to it than a drop part or two and a few frame modifications.Originally Posted by Brian T
Agree, I have seen roller bearing hammers on Smith and Colt; never heard of a roller rebound slide. Can't see where it would help much vs polished contact surfaces.
Code Name: JET STREAM
Korth revolvers were designed and built for bullseye competition. Initially, Willi Korth made the centerfire variants with a 5-shot capacity, because the sixth round was superfluous in target disciplines. Form followed function. The key feature of the Korth trigger action design, patented in Germany as DE 1904675 A1, allowed for a precise and tunable stacking transition in double action, achieved through the use of variously sized rollers on the trigger impinging upon the double action sear on the hammer. This feature allowed for precise staging of the trigger pull into a smooth hammer cocking stroke followed by a hard transition to a crisp hammer release. The end result offered the well heeled German revolver shooter a sidearm that mimicked the two-stage trigger pull ergonomics of a precision service semiautomatic sidearm such as the SIG P210.
Gilbert Maillard designed the Manurhin MR73 on a very different brief. Although his sidearm was meant to be well suited for reactive deployment in precision snap shooting, its primary purpose was offensive. In the United States, the closest counterpart for these desiderata was the 1989 tender by the United States Special Operations Command (US SOCOM) of the Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) that resulted in the adoption of the Heckler & Koch MK23 Mod 0 pistol as the standard-issue handgun for most US special forces groups.
Here is the relevant part of my Manurhin MR73 article:
And here is the key claim of Maillard’s US3965603A patent:In the early Seventies, the French constabulary faced an extraordinary criminal threat. The country remained awash in weapons left over from its occupation in WWII. Le milieu, the thoroughly updated twentieth century successor of the swell criminal mob (la haute pègre) originally mythologized by Balzac in La Comedie humaine, did not hesitate to employ military grade firearms in bank robberies. The gang of the Lyonnais employed an enviable array of handguns, submachine guns, and assault rifles to great effect in over 35 daring robberies that netted up to twelve million francs apiece between 1967 and 1977. As a result, French police agencies gradually accepted the idea of arming their personnel, traditionally equipped with blowback autopistols chambered in .32 ACP, with locked breech autopistols and heavy duty revolvers chambered in 9mm Para and .357 Magnum. American-style handgun shooting reached Europe in the 1962, with Raymond Sasia, a judo instructor employed as a bodyguard by Charles de Gaulle, who was sent to study the shooting techniques of the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia. He returned to France with an FBI certification and founded CNT, the National Center for Shooting Instruction of the National Police (le Centre National de Perfectionnement du Tir de la Police Nationale), a shooting school in Paris that taught range officers, French nationals at first, then foreigners. The latter, upon returning home, taught new range officers. Thus the method “Sasia” promulgated FBI’s revolver shooting techniques throughout the Western world. Meanwhile, CNT sought to develop and adopt a standard issue police sidearm. Sasia’s experience of training with the FBI dictated chambering the revolver in .357 Magnum. At first, Smith and Wesson developed at his behest and on his behalf, a special production run of its .357 Magnum Model 19 revolver, designated M19-3RS, equipped with a 3" barrel and fitted with fixed sights.
In 1971, the Service d’études techniques de la Police Nationale of the Interior Ministry, headed by master shooter Valéry Carmona, charged Manurhin with the creation of a new French .357 Magnum dual purpose (police-sporting) revolver. The stage was set on issuing a French product, expected to number 80,000 revolvers, in constabulary service. The Manurhin MR73 revolvers ensued from this program. Its titular year saw the production of Police/Defense fixed sight variants with 2½", 3", and 4" inch barrels, in 9mm Para and .357 Magnum. The following year Manurhin rolled out its Match and Sport versions, with 4", 5¼", 6", and 8" barrels, all in the .357 Magnum caliber. In 1977, it added 3", 5¼", and 8" GIGN (Gendarmerie) versions in .357 Magnum. In 1980 and 1981 came the turn of the MR32 and MR38 Match revolvers in .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W Special, along with the 9" MR73 Long Range. The centerfire MR range was completed in 1983 with the 10¾" MR73 Silhouette in .357 Magnum and the limited production, stainless steel MR73 10-year commemorative. The MR22 in .22LR and the small-frame 5-shot Remora in .38 S&W Special followed in 1986.The MR range culminated in 1987 with the Convertible model, fitted with interchangeable, tensioned barrels fed by hand-detachable cylinders in .38 Special, .32 S&W Long, and .22LR, with the aid of a frame-mounted firing pin selectable for centerfire or rimfire ignition.
Long story short, Maillard’s design is the ultimate refinement developed to date of a trigger action that suits the requirements of smooth, fast, and precise double action shooting as developed and taught by Ed McGivern and Bill Jordan.At the time of pulling of the double-action, the force exerted by the marksman upon the trigger must on one hand overcome the action on the trigger by the hammer spring, and on the other hand, the force exerted upon the trigger by its spring. This last force increases as a function of the degree of displacement of the trigger; the range of travel of the trigger has to be sufficient to assure the displacement of the hammer towards its cocked position. The result of this is that the force required by the marksman to be exerted upon the trigger increases as the hammer approaches its fully cocked position in which it becomes free to perform its firing stroke: this makes it difficult for the marksman to achieve accuracy in shooting the revolver.
The present invention has among its objects the overcoming of such disadvantage. In accordance with the invention there is provided a double-action revolver in which the force exerted by the second spring upon the trigger remains substantially constant and independent of the distance of travel of the trigger, so that the revolver has a great regularity of “weight” or pull of its double-action, and thus greatly improves the sensitivity of the trigger action.
Michael@massmeans.com | Zeleny@post.harvard.edu | westcoastguns@gmail.com | larvatus prodeo @ livejournal | +1-323-363-1860 | “If at first you don’t succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed.” — Curly Howard, 1936 | “All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.” — Samuel Beckett, 1984
Superb posts by zeleny in this thread. Thank you.
Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain’t that a big enough majority in any town?
At 65+, my ignorance still outpaces my wisdom but I have had a couple of good bon mots pounded into me that I ignore at my peril, and one of them that really got hammered home was to never buy anything I couldn't afford to replace if necessary. (For me, the lesson was administered in the form of blackpowder cartridge rifles and the associated paraphernalia thereof.) That being said, there is much to recommend in thinning out the herd and possibly upgrading before health care/assisted living sharks, fair-weather friends and relatives, and big brother assume control of the collection.
I have never even seen a Manurhin revolver in the flesh, though I have seen a couple of Korths over the years. I am always impressed by good craftsmanship and materials, and I appreciate incremental improvements in design. This thread has ended up being pretty interesting, and while I would now like to sample a Manurhin revolver, I'm really a day late and a dollar short.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
Mr Zeleny made some excellent comments. Well worth the read and IMHO totally on point.
I'll add that the notion that the MR73's made by Chapuis are inferior to the Mulhouse ones is complete and utter balony. I own both, and from both the inside and outside and accuracy, I sure cannot tell the difference. With the exception of the somewhat "interesting" australian on youtube, ALL the naysayers and "negative nellies" are individuals who have never in their entire lives even seen either a Manurhin or a Korth, never mind ever shooting either of them. For some reason, some feel the need to share their "wisdom" in spite of not having the faintest.
As an MR73 owner, I know a tiny bit. I have high degree of confidence you would be very happy with either a Manurhin or a Korth, and you would appreciate the fine engineering that went into both guns. The few other owners I have come across, are very happy with their guns. And if worse comes to worst, if you need to sell, you will get most of you money back.
Feel free to PM me.
Good luck. Pol.
Enjoyed reading this thread. I have owned a Chapuis MR73. Currently own a Ratzeburg Korth and a new one from Lollar. To me it was a matter of personal preference. I preferred either Korth to the MR73. I just received my first Janz revolver and will say it is a remarkable firearm.
I would like to see Zeleny weigh in on the Janz.
What makes you prefer the Korth over the Manurhin?
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