Wouldn’t it be nice if the news that reported this story would have provided 1/1000th of the context you just provided? Instead we get a pretty face who just graduated college warning us about how *disturbing* the video they are about to show is.Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97
Thanks for your excellent reply.
Thanks @Coyotesfan97. I hadn’t thought about the context you provided as I’ve never been a K9 handler.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Awesome post.
We adopted a 2 y/o GSD 6 months ago that had bounced around a little. We took him to training immediately to start getting some manners. The first night we had him I tried to measure his neck for a new collar and he got snippy. The second day at training the trainer wanted to try a pinch collar because he was pulling hard. Went to put the collar on and he came up the leash with an “I’m going to kill you” attitude. Put him on the tie out lines and let him calm down for the rest of class. I’m convinced that someone over trained him with a collar in his past. We can now put collars on and off for the most part and have been able to use a plastic pinch, he gets weird but isn’t aggressive. Him coming up the leash like that was a scary sight luckily he didn’t get anyone and at 6’3” I could hold him up until he chilled a little
So, are you or have you been a K9 handler?
Nope. Don't need to be in order to recognize unacceptable behavior. But feel free to read Cotyotesfan97's post if you want an expert opinion.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who harms an animal (except in defense of self or others) is deserving of wearing handcuffs - badge or no badge.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an emotional reaction to a video of part of an incident, without context or the backstory is probably going to make a fine LE administrator some day. Don't need an expert opinion, I'd qualify as one in court.
Did he really harm the dog? Really?
I think you're confusing a correction with causing physical harm. Though I don't like the officers chosen method in the video, I'm not going to criticize the actions until I know more about the dog and more about the actions that proceeded the alpha roll. I know the correction shown in the video is way beyond what is necessary with most dogs, but I've seen very high drive dogs take a correction like this an re-engage with the bad behavior like nothing ever happened - almost like they enjoyed the reaction they got out of their handler. It's a tough balance to maintain. You want the dog to be full of confidence and lacking of any fear. But the dog needs to be responsible to the handler and respect the handler's authority. It can be a serious safety issue if you don't get that aggression under check. I have a friend and co-worker who lost an eye and almost lost a bicep to a dog who came up his leash. I worked with a professional decoy who nearly died after a GSD reengaged following a release and purposefully went up the guy's bite suit to get his neck. If you don't curb that aggression, be prepared for the handcuffs after your dog really harms someone else.
If you really feel the officer in the video is harming the dog, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on pinch collars, e-collars or even the concept of neutering animals to curb aggression. There is a huge spectrum of tools and techniques out there used to train our canine friends. The level of correction in the video applied to a "hard" dog pales in relative comparison to corrections I see all the time by untrained owners on their unsuspecting pets.
lol! Stop... please... you're gonna hurt my feelings.
Some things (especially video) don't need the "rest of the story." The dog is not a threat to the handler or anyone - it's pinned under his weight. But by all means, let's hear your "expertise" so you can explain why punching a dog repeatedly in the face is acceptable.
Those punches look fast and hard to me. And they are closed fist strikes, not open hand slaps. While most K9 handlers are professional and love their dogs, there are many who do it for the wrong reasons - to include special pay, improved schedules, better vehicle, etc. And we have plenty of overly aggressive assholes in LE. When one of those types of cops gets a partner that can't talk back or tell others what he does... sometimes you get officers who abuse their animals. Like so many things in life, some folks just don't have the right attitude to be trusted with the welfare of another living thing. And people show their true colors when they believe nobody is watching... just like the clown in the video.
I'm not a fan of electronic collars or fences. Pinch or choke collars work sometimes, depending on the dog, but can be abused like anything else.
Some more thinking.
There are plenty of trainers who can take a sharp, hard dog and get it through a course with some old school, potentially barbaric techniques. Table training is an example, if done like many do it. Like anything else in dog training some of the tranining concepts can be valid, but when your only tool is a hammer....They look for someone who wants a hard dog, and sell the dog down the road.
Two of the best dogs I have seen work in my career were the smallest, hairiest furballs I have seen. They were trained old school (both were Czech long haired GSDs) "yank and crank" and had serious chips on their shoulders. The vendor discounted the dogs due to how hard they were. One of them owned me during my early days decoying. He knew when he smelled me I was a chew toy and he would not give me up. This dog more than once was choked unconcious to get him off of me. And he frequently regained consciousness trying to bite. The proudest day in my decoying career was keeping him clean with stick corrections while wearing only a bite sleeve. He challenged his handler freely, at every opportunity. I still have a driver's license with teeth marks in it, where my wallet was used for an evidence search. Handler got bit getting my wallet back.
Then came time to deploy. We were looking for a homicide suspect, and I was in plain clothes, and I was the only available cover officer for the handler. Both the hadler and I tensed up as the dog cruised over to me, gave me a sniff and wandered off in the area search. I like to imagine a chin jut, saying "come with me, bro". We searched a couple of city blocks and he never once fired on me, or the handler. The only street bite I recall from this dog was spitting out an arm and biting an incoming fist on a robbery suspect as dude tried to punch dog. Several bones were broken in the hand. RIP Agar.
When you look at dog training over the years hard dogs were sought because they had to be hard to survive the training. Some trainers still train that way, and train handlers in that way. We talk frequently about "not knowing what you don"t know". With the explosion of the need for working dogs since 9/11, there weren't that many hard dogs to go around. Litters were selection tested and the weaker dogs culled while the "good" dogs got top dollar. Breeders, vendors, and trainers had to make due with more and more "marginal" dogs, and they had find ways to train the dogs to a standard. Suddenly by finding different ways to train may have taken longer, but many of those marginal dogs became stellar performers. The word "balanced" entered the converstion at several points.
Now the hard core old school "crank and yank" trainers are falling away. It is good to know some of the crank and yank stuff in case it becomes necessary with a specific dog with a specific problem, but they are fortunately in the minority. My best friend's GSD was trained old school and was a nervy bastard. No confidence, afraid of getting the shit beat out of him if acted out. He walked around head down, tail down, and he barked at everything, usually over his shoulder unless he thought he was going to get a bite. Then he was all business. A new vendor, a new trainer, and a new training philosophy over the course of about 12 weeks completelly transformed this dog. He is now confident, and it shows in his body language as he walks around. Total transformation in a six year old dog.
Dog training by and large has gotten better over the last three or so decades, and everyone benefits from the improvements. Especially the dogs.
pat
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