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Thread: Another "why revolvers?" thread (culled side conversation)

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Ok.



    Or this Ruger SP101:

    I too can search google for photos to support my statements.

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    Better or worse then stock Walther PPK sights per your definition?
    Probably similar, though I wouldn't use a Walther PPK for a primary carry gun so it doesn't matter. The only purpose a PPK would serve for me is James Bond larping.

    Factory sights on a Shield?
    Not a fan of the Shield either but I do find them to be much more shootable than a similarly sized revolver.

    Hell, better or worse then the plastic OEM Glock sights?
    I haven't owned a set of plastic OEM Glock sights in a long time but if you set aside the durability or lack thereof the OEM plastic sights are serviceable, much more so than the sights that are typically found on j-frame type revolvers as pictured above.

    SOME revolvers have terrible sights. SOME autoloaders do as well. Categorically saying one is better then the other isn't a matter of "like" or "definition". It's just wrong.
    I don't disagree, and I should have prefaced the fact that I was speaking in general terms instead of absolutes. I can see where I gave that impression.

    I'm talking about the kind of revolvers and sight combos that are commonly found on the ones that are carried today. I don't know a single person IRL that utilizes a revolver in a carry capacity who is running Novak sights on a J frame or carrying medium to large frame revolvers that they're typically found on. I'm talking about today, end of 2020, not a time period when Hillstreet Blues was the number 2 or number 3 police procedural on network television.

    The people I know, and many of the ones online that I see are carrying j-frames are doing so for the convenience they afford. Notched frame rear and a serrated front or XS Big Dot is what I commonly see on the j-frames that people carry. Start adding snaggy sights and bigger grips and you're taking away part of what appeals about carrying them, which is the ability to carry them in a coat or pants pocket and still be able to deploy them in a timely manner.

    Maybe there are people out there carrying medium and large frame revolvers for concealed carry. That makes even less sense to me though. A gun with the same size penalty as a semi auto service weapon without the benefit of additional capacity isn't a choice I'd be willing to make but to each his own.

    I admit my revolver experience is limited, but you know why it's limited? Because every time I get the notion to buy a revolver and work it into the mix I shoot one and quickly realize there are far better options to suit my needs. I move on with life until the next time I get that itch and it needs to be scratched.

    One could argue that revolvers and AKs have a lot of similarities. I won't say I'm the most experienced AK guy on PF because I'm not, but there hasn't been a day since 1998 that I haven't owned one and not much time goes by between me shooting and training with one. I've taken classes with them, and probably have twice the rounds through AKs that I do through ARs. I'm well acquainted with what AKs do well and what they don't do so well. One thing I know about using both, is AKs are not as reliable as the folklore you read on the internet, they're more accurate than AR guys want to admit, and ARs are not as finicky as AK guys want you to believe. I would have no qualms about using one of my AKs against a home invader or whatever, but I'd be lying if I said it'd be my first choice when I have the AR option. Everything about running AKs is harder, it just is, and I still love them. I suspect many revolver aficionados can see the parallels there.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Since this has devolved into revolver vs. autoloader, can we go ahead and do 9mm vs. .45 as well?
    Only 9 vs 45 revolvers.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    My issue with revolvers as a carry for self defense option isn't the lack of capacity, but all the other things that make them less than ideal. Wonky grips, terrible sights, and the ergonomics of a gas station burrito. I've thought about buying one for years, something like the 9mm LCR, but it would serve in the BUG role and not as the main carry option. Every time I shoot a revolver though, I can't help but talk myself out of it because everything with a semi auto is better and/or easier.

    As mentioned elsewhere by me, I have big hands and little guns don't agree with them. The smallest gun I would carry as a primary is a Glock 19. Even with a G19 size gun, my pinky is always on the verge of dropping off. Undercutting the trigger guard on a G19 allows me to get a full-ish firing grip. A G17 is better so that's what I carry.

    ...

    The j-frame or small semi auto with no reload may be the right choice for some people, but it's not for me. My loved ones are worth me making the effort to be as prepared as I possibly can in the event I have to smoke check one or more shitbirds for trying to do us harm.
    The issue of things fitting my hands is not a revolver-versus-auto thing. Nothing on this planet fits my hands like a Ruger GP100, with the original pattern grip. Somewhere along the way, that horrendous finger-grooved Hogue became standard. Horrendous, I started searching evil-bay for the original factory grips. Thankfully, Ruger listened, and the original-pattern grip made a come-back. Some Ruger revolvers are now available with what appears to be a wood Hogue grip, but without finger grooves. To me, this grip is a poor fit. Thankfully, most revolvers allow re-fitting with grips that better fit one’s hands.

    A true personal favorite, of mine, regarding fit, is the old-school P220, with the heel-clip magazine release. The newer P220, well, no, thanks. The P226, and its derivative models, fit me quite well, other than being wide enough to feel a but insecure, during one-handed shooting. Original-pattern 1911 frames are merely OK, but the way Les Baer frames are sculpted, at the junction of the trigger guard and front strap, is my nirvana, among auto-loaders.

    We seem to agree on the G17. Gen4 and Gen5 Glocks work well in my hands, if they have none of the adapters installed. I may not like the triggers, but I can work around that.

    We share a dislike for J-Frames. They “feel good” in my hand, and point well, but they place a performance ceiling on how well I can shoot them, probably because so much of my trigger finger is past the trigger. Plus, J-Frame recoil bashes my arthritic right thumb, unless I use over-sized grips, and those over-sized grips defeat the purpose of concealment. A snubby K-Frame is in the same size envelope as a J-Frame that is wearing over-sized cushy grips.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!
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  4. #24
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    I don't disagree, and I should have prefaced the fact that I was speaking in general terms instead of absolutes. I can see where I gave that impression.

    I'm talking about the kind of revolvers and sight combos that are commonly found on the ones that are carried today. I don't know a single person IRL that utilizes a revolver in a carry capacity who is running Novak sights on a J frame or carrying medium to large frame revolvers that they're typically found on. I'm talking about today, end of 2020, not a time period when Hillstreet Blues was the number 2 or number 3 police procedural on network television.

    The people I know, and many of the ones online that I see are carrying j-frames are doing so for the convenience they afford. Notched frame rear and a serrated front or XS Big Dot is what I commonly see on the j-frames that people carry. Start adding snaggy sights and bigger grips and you're taking away part of what appeals about carrying them, which is the ability to carry them in a coat or pants pocket and still be able to deploy them in a timely manner.
    Well, there we go.

    As far as what people carry, I occasionally carry an LCR with a novak front sight but a gutter rear. As you say, if you start adding "better" sights you make a "worse" gun for the way people tend to employ them. I had zero issue making a hit on a moving dog at 5-ish yards while under stress and injured, so I don't think they sights held me back. I would not want to bull's eye shoot with them, but that's not what they are for. As the common phrase here goes "mission drives the gear train".

    I also shoot an LCR more accurately then a Shield. The texture, shape, and size of the grips help quite a bit. I can rip off more rounds faster with the Shield, no doubt. The Shield is even flatter and is what I carry on my vest these days because both choices are accurate enough for the role. I absolutely suck with anything smaller that's magazine fed. The flat sides and relative slickness of the grip makes me feel like I'm holding on to it with chopsticks. I can't shoot a splinter grip j-frame (or really even a k-frame) for shit, either. I need a bigger and "grippier" grip. I love plow handles and coke bottles. Part of it is due to hand size, part is due to nerve damage with reduced sensation, and part of it is likely just what I'm used to. I shoot Glocks well enough, but absent my employer giving me one I'd still be carrying a P22X with rough textured grip panels.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
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  5. #25
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    Some perspectives to consider for those who did not see them yet the last time revolvers were discussed:

    Lee Weems
    Six for Maybe
    Six for Maybe, Part 2

    John Daub
    AAR – Rangemaster Master Firearms Instructor Development and Certification Course, November 15-17, 2019

    Claude Werner
    Revolvers are passé
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Yung View Post
    Some perspectives to consider for those who did not see them yet the last time revolvers were discussed:

    Lee Weems
    Six for Maybe
    Six for Maybe, Part 2

    John Daub
    AAR – Rangemaster Master Firearms Instructor Development and Certification Course, November 15-17, 2019

    Claude Werner
    Revolvers are passé

    All those are moderately ridiculous.

    Squib loads disable revolvers!!! And a semi-auto wouldn't have been?

    Revolvers need good ammo and cleaning!!! OMG, constant maintenance!!! I mean, yeah, OK. I was raised to clean firearms after every shooting session. Maybe that's old fashioned but before the current ammo shortage I would go through 150 to 250 rounds a range session with revolvers with no issues. The suggestion to clean every 100 rounds seems conservative. The idea extrapolated that you can't trust more than a cylinder of ammo without a failure is just... bad. If you find yourself in a firefight needing 100+ rounds may I also suggest you are likely dead? Also look at training after action reports on this site from training sessions noting feed cycle issues with Glocks, etc. My experience says mechanical issues are about equal between revolvers and semi-autos. Semi-autos though have their own glossary of terms for types of feed cycle issues

    Users of small frame revolvers can't equal the performance of full size service pistols whether revolver or semi-auto!!! Well, yeah, small revolvers may be the hardest of all handguns to shoot well and that's pretty much without dispute. Any small firearm is hard to use compared to bigger brethren. Add in heavy pull double action and light weight? So what? The niche of a small frame revolver isn't the same as a belt handgun.

    Claude Werner, a user of small frame, snub nose revolvers, notes currently revolver production is less than semi-auto production. Well, yeah. So what? Manufacturing trends tell us, what?

    There is plenty of room to discuss pros and cons of various handgun platforms. Semi-autos have pros and cons. Revolvers have pros and cons. Life is about tradeoffs and the tradeoffs are worth discussion for each of our personal risk assessments. Let's be honest though in evaluating them.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Moon View Post
    All those are moderately ridiculous.
    I think he was being quite honest and level-headed.

    I think you might be "missing the forest for the trees" and taking some things out of context.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
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  8. #28
    Member Wake27's Avatar
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    I have a Glock 19 that’s over 1,300 rounds without cleaning or lube so IDGAF about cleaning my carry gun after every range trip. Obviously it’s not bad but again, it’s 2020. If you have to clean your gun every 1-200 rounds, you need a new gun.

    Also I’m still curious what niche a revolver fills that a subcompact semi auto doesn’t.


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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post

    Also I’m still curious what niche a revolver fills that a subcompact semi auto doesn’t.


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    I really wish some experienced, subject matter experts would write some thoughtful posts about that on one internet forum or another.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
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  10. #30
    Member Wake27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    I really wish some experienced, subject matter experts would write some thoughtful posts about that on one internet forum or another.
    Maybe I missed it in this thread?


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