Mike Pannone video on ready position

[PD Sgt.]

Not trying to speak for Mike (I have taken Covert Carry twice and his Advanced Handgun as well) and not having anything in the same realm as his experience, my takeaway is the TI position is less than ideal even as a transitional position when moving, particularly in a FAMs or tubular assault position (where Mike says he was usually running the aisles to contact).

This is based on the fact the pistol blocks your vision and creates a very vulnerable blind spot. As it happens, in the most disadvantaged position to attempt to defend a weapon takeaway, much less one you can’t see coming. The alternative he presents is stronger, easier to defend, less obscuring, and still does not risk flagging unless you have someone eight feet tall hovering over you.

I also like his alternative to Sul, and have begun incorporating it into dry practice in the expectation of using it live in the future.

[Utm]

Not trying to speak for Mike (I have taken Covert Carry twice and his Advanced Handgun as well) and not having anything in the same realm as his experience, my takeaway is the TI position is less than ideal even as a transitional position when moving, particularly in a FAMs or tubular assault position (where Mike says he was usually running the aisles to contact).

This is based on the fact the pistol blocks your vision and creates a very vulnerable blind spot. As it happens, in the most disadvantaged position to attempt to defend a weapon takeaway, much less one you can’t see coming. The alternative he presents is stronger, easier to defend, less obscuring, and still does not risk flagging unless you have someone eight feet tall hovering over you.

I also like his alternative to Sul, and have begun incorporating it into dry practice in the expectation of using it live in the future.

The problem is the context. He is describing the position being used out of the context it was created for. This isn't a position you'd use with suspects or hostiles close enough to grab you or your weapon.

[Default.mp3]

This is based on the fact the pistol blocks your vision and creates a very vulnerable blind spot.

Temple index as taught by Will Petty does not block your vision. The base of the thumb indexes either off the bottom rear of your ear pro or else the lobe of your ear. Even with 170mm mags, I had minimal impact to vision, let alone running 140mms or flush fit mags.

[Cecil Burch]

I think one of the problems that is exposed by this video and discussion is that we are bad at terminology.

Just like with the term "mindset" - which is actually used to describe three completely different things - using the term "ready" position is not as descriptive as it should be and leaves some gaps. Based on a lot of the debate here, I think we are confusing a "ready" position - i.e. a position in which we can immediately go into a firing mode - with a "carry" position i.e. moving with the gun in hand but not as immediately ready to fire. So when one person is talking about a ready position and the other person is thinking carry position, you get a lot of talking AT each other and not much talking TO each other.

A carry position (which to me is more SUL or TI) is not used in the same manner as a high compressed ready. Different contexts means you are comparing apples to tomatoes.

My two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

[Dave Williams]

Just like with the term "mindset" - which is actually used to describe three completely different things

Can you explain this?

Thanks

[El Cid]

Not trying to speak for Mike (I have taken Covert Carry twice and his Advanced Handgun as well) and not having anything in the same realm as his experience, my takeaway is the TI position is less than ideal even as a transitional position when moving, particularly in a FAMs or tubular assault position (where Mike says he was usually running the aisles to contact).

This is based on the fact the pistol blocks your vision and creates a very vulnerable blind spot. As it happens, in the most disadvantaged position to attempt to defend a weapon takeaway, much less one you can’t see coming. The alternative he presents is stronger, easier to defend, less obscuring, and still does not risk flagging unless you have someone eight feet tall hovering over you.

I also like his alternative to Sul, and have begun incorporating it into dry practice in the expectation of using it live in the future.

As Utm stated, that's now how Centrifuge teaches TI be used. Most of the nonsense I've seen on the internet and in person regarding TI (including the nonsense we've seen from Pannone) uses a premise that has never been taught by Will or Centrifuge. It's bizarre that people keep missing that fact.

His comments were in response to drama surrounding someone else's off-color meme.

But Pannone re-posted it and seemed to endorse the asinine comments from Stretz Tactical. Therefore, Pannone is adding to the drama and making himself look ridiculous because he still doesn't seem to understand what Centrifuge teaches...

[ViniVidivici]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't give two shits about the purse-swinging between instructors, only the logical discussion of relevant TTPs.

Mr. Burch brings up an excellent point on a need for the refinement of our terminology. It would benefit us greatly to explore this.

So far, I have very briefly tried out the technique demonstrated by Pannone and I have to say, for me, grabbing the gun like that is very counter-intuitive. Hand close to muzzle, last two fingers wanting to find their way into the triggerguard....

Absolutely will continue to evaluate and decide whether or not it's a tool I want to ingrain into the toolbox, but not crazy about it yet...

[Cecil Burch]

Can you explain this?

Thanks

I don't want to derail the thread but very briefly:

Mindset is used to describe all three of these things-

1) the realization that the world is not how we want it to be and that violence and bad stuff can happen to you that and you need to prepare accordingly

2) accepting the willingness to use necessary levels of violence to defend yourself and your loved ones

3) the ability to fight through adversity and being beaten in a violent encounter and to not give up i.e. "I will do whatever it takes to keep fighting"


None of those are remotely the same thing and yet they are all regularly labeled in the training community as mindset. That's like calling swimming laps in a pool, aqua aerobics, and high diving as all "swimming".

[jlw]

I think one of the problems that is exposed by this video and discussion is that we are bad at terminology.

Just like with the term "mindset" - which is actually used to describe three completely different things - using the term "ready" position is not as descriptive as it should be and leaves some gaps. Based on a lot of the debate here, I think we are confusing a "ready" position - i.e. a position in which we can immediately go into a firing mode - with a "carry" position i.e. moving with the gun in hand but not as immediately ready to fire. So when one person is talking about a ready position and the other person is thinking carry position, you get a lot of talking AT each other and not much talking TO each other.

A carry position (which to me is more SUL or TI) is not used in the same manner as a high compressed ready. Different contexts means you are comparing apples to tomatoes.

My two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

If you read the link posted by @John Hearne, you'll see an attempt to define the terms.

[PD Sgt.]

I have never taken a Centrifuge class, though some friends of mine have and they speak well of the training. I wasn’t trying to express any invalidation of the technique, I was just offering my take on how I understood the video.