Didn't they stop making .38-44 "Hi-Speed" ammo because it'd blow up older Smith's?
This stuff was "fun" to shoot... out of an LCR (38 not .357)...
http://instagram.com/p/BequGV3nPtx/
Didn't they stop making .38-44 "Hi-Speed" ammo because it'd blow up older Smith's?
This stuff was "fun" to shoot... out of an LCR (38 not .357)...
http://instagram.com/p/BequGV3nPtx/
I never had a chance to try that +P+ HS load, but I suspect it might not have reached those velocities from a standard revolver given industry advertising standards. Still, one of those bullets in a revolver would be enough to get me to switch, especially since they'd hit POA from a fixed-sight 4" gun whereas current high-tech loads hit low, at least in my guns.
Actually no, they didn't. The 38-44 passed into obscurity because it's younger cousin (by 5 years) took over and dominated the medium bore high performance market. That was the 357 Magnum.
S&W's advertised performance for the 38-44 was a 158g bullet at 1125 fps. If you want to duplicate that today you can load 11g-11.5g of 2400 behind that weight bullet, or you can buy the almost exact performance from Buffalo Bore. Their 38 Special +P 158g SWCHP-GC duplicates the old 38-44. I've chronographed it in both a 4" Heavy Duty and a pre-War 5" HD. Velocities ran from 1127 to 1141.
Dave
That section of chart is to show the difference in velocity between the two Remington .357 loads.
There's only a 113fps difference between the ".357 Lite" Golden Saber vs Full power SJHP from the 2" barrel.
Where you really see that the GS is a ".357 lite" load is the 4" velocity comparison. The GS is 1182fps - about a 9mm NATO level of power - whereas the SJHP is clocking 1473fps. Thats a 291fps difference - and a corresponding increase in blast and recoil from a J frame.
I'd be amazed if an engineer hasn't doodled up a CAD model of those options. The science is done, as 0.002 inch isn't going to change any physics. Just make it a hair bigger. But they would have to tool it, and that's expensive. My production engineering lizard brain also worries about getting product mixed up. If the .357 bullets got loaded in .355 cases, that could lead to a range of bad things happening, and .355 bullets in .357 cases would a the minimum have poor accuracy, but possibly also issues with jumping crimp, etc. It would be better if you could tell the bullets apart without a caliper in your hand, which would mean an all-new design. Perhaps the reason we see 130-140-gr loads from several manufacturers.
Hodgdon has data for a 146gr Speer JHP in .38 +P, but with a 7.7-in barrel. Four loads are >1000 fps, seven are >975 fps.
I think it's clear that your target can be done with a 4-in barrel, but it's entirely possible that to get the 975-1000 fps range from a slightly shorter 3 inch barrel preferred by many for carry would require pressures not reliably within the .38 +P standard. That would make it have to be loaded in .357 cases, and a load labeled .357 at that power level would be almost sales-proof for people who aren't posters here. Plus, it couldn't be loaded in all the M64/M67 and non-.357 J frames out there, which is kinda the point.
BBTI http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html doesn't have exactly the data I'd like to show, but it's worth another pass through the .38 and .357 pages there.
TLDR: After thinking it through, it's likely that your proposed target is possible, but in practical terms, there are just enough complications to keep it from being a slam dunk.
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Not another dime.
I'm honestly hoping now that Barnes has been bought by Sierra, we can get a steady supply of the 140-grain bullets in .357". That particular bullet will make a very fine .38 Special load at 1000fps. The Barnes factory load in .357 Mag is actually a bit too hot and could stand to be dropped about 150fps (from 1400 to 1250). The Buffalo Bore loading in .357 Magnum is about perfect, actually.
Buffalo Bore or Sierra or someone should do a 140-grain XPB +P .38Spl load. That all copper projectile at 750-800fps from a snub should work well and it should hit like a brick shithouse from a 4" gun.
A man can dream...