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Thread: AYSM 147gr FMJ Match vs. WWB FMJ NATO 9mm = 5" difference in windage???

  1. #1
    Site Supporter NickDrak's Avatar
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    AYSM 147gr FMJ Match vs. WWB FMJ NATO 9mm = 5" difference in windage???

    Does this make any sense?

    I was zeroing the new 10-8 Performance sights on my new Gen4 G34 with the ASYM 147gr FMJ Match ammo @ 25yds from a bench. Printed a nicely centered group of just under 2.0" with the ASYM. I then shot a group with two of my different practice rounds. Winchester white box 124gr FMJ "NATO" and Aguila 124gr FMJ. Groups were still pretty good (approx 3" @ 25yds) But both of the 124gr rounds impacted approximately 5" to the left of where the ASYM was hitting. I followed with another nicely centered group with the ASYM.

    I expected there to be a slight variation in elevation between the three different loads, but I didn't expect there to be much difference in windage....especially not 5" worth of difference at 25yds!

    I finished by shooting a group of each round @ 5yds. The ASYM was impacting dead center. Both of the 124gr FMJ loads were impacting around .75" left of my P.O.A.

  2. #2
    I have seen significant difference left/right with different brands of ammo, so I don't think it's abnormal.
    "Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #3
    We are diminished
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    Just to echo MEH, it happens. Some guns and some ammo just click together that way. That's why it's important to zero one's pistol with duty/carry ammo.

  4. #4
    Member Joe Mamma's Avatar
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    I've heard of thiese left/right zero shifts before. But I still have no idea why.

    Joe Mamma

  5. #5
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    I've seen them also. With my Glocks, IIRC, it's most noticeable with 147 gr. I don't shoot much 147 as I don't find it readily avail on the shelves were I hang out so I'm generally using 115 or 124 gr fmj by the case to training and 124 +P. But sometimes when I find some 147 and try it out at 25 yds, it impacts left of my zero with the lighter bullets. I figure it's some advanced math stuff about the imparting of the twist to the higher mass slug by the Glock barrel or slower to exit the bore and Glocks unlocking movements . . . yada yada more adv math . . . something like one of those.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #6
    Member derekb's Avatar
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    There is a long, but very interesting, series of articles written by Tom Gaylord about his quest to determine exactly what the relationship between velocity of an airgun pellet and accuracy.

    Here's the last entry, with links to earlier entries collected.

    It's a lot to read through, but he does discover some interesting things. For example, it was long believed that a diabolo pellet fired faster than the speed of sound would be inherently inaccurate due to the nature of the transonic region, but he seems to have discovered that barrel harmonics are more significant, and a supersonic pellet can be accurate.
    I don't understand what's happening, but I have a soldering iron.

  7. #7
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
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    Escapee from the SF Bay Area now living on the Front Range of Colorado.
    I haven't seen it so much on my pistols, but my M14 displays an odd shift in windage as I increase bullet weight - been trying to figure that one out for years......

  8. #8
    I use Fed HST 147 for defense. The Winchester 124gr NATO ammo did exhibit a noticeable windage offset in my G19s.

  9. #9
    My brother's advanced Marine Scout Sniper class switched from 175gr to 173gr and saw a two foot difference in POI at 1000 yards.
    #RESIST

  10. #10
    I would assume, in a pistol, it's a question of dwell time and rifling torque causing any side to side play in the barrel, at either end, to affect the alignment, the direction depending on which end of the barrel is freer to move relative to the other. In a rifle, more the whip harmonics.

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