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Thread: Discuss: What is the Optimum “Draw Weight” of a Gun+Holster?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    I'd really rather see it in a force/distance drawn graph. This will show the snappiness, or lack of.
    Now THAT could be really interesting! I was reminded of this guy that built a test fixture for measuring force curves of triggers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YJ0hX9N0aM

    It would be interesting to quantify the effect of things like the profile and depth of trigger guard indentations on the force curve. Also, effect on the force curve from torquing the gun laterally (such as from a botched or clumsy draw) during the draw on a leather holster. Maybe a bunch of stuff no one cares about, but I find it interesting.

    That video above is a great example, even if off-topic. In the past, I've tried to quantify to people why the Ghost Edge is my favorite Glock connector. I don't care about having an extremely low pull weight, but it's more to do with how the force curve is smoothed and the "hitch" in the pull is reduced. For me at least, less distraction and more consistency.

    Maybe this is just "gamer" stuff, and maybe no one cares... but this is PF! Might as well geek out over some obscure aspect of holsters, because what other forum is going to?!
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  2. #32
    Wannabe Privateer RevolverRob's Avatar
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    This scientist likes this overall approach. Would it not be better to insert a dowel into the muzzle (assuming open-ended holster), hold the holster and press downward against a force plate until the gun pops free? You have a force plate right Rich?
    ___

    I've always used the 'shake test'. Most of the time that is followed by the, "Does it yank my pants up" test.

    If it passes both tests, it's generally good to go.

    Interestingly, this is one reason I prefer leather to kydex holsters.

    Though kydex has very positive retention, the area in which that retention tension is applied is very small (usually just the front of the trigger guard area). If we think about this for a moment, that means the total area where the retention tension is being applied is quite small. That's okay, kydex has very good retention capabilities. But this also means, as soon as the gun clears this small retention area, it typically has very little remaining tension to hold it in place. Basically, tension increases/decreases as a function of the area of the trigger guard inserted into the retention area and that area is small and the force is great, it's very exponential-like.

    Leather, by contrast, applies less retention tension, but applies it over a larger area of the gun. This means that tension increases/decreases in a more linear fashion as the gun is inserted and removed. While full tension is achieved when the gun is fully inserted, there is more partial tension available than typically found in kydex.

    All of this means things like...I can half-remove a gun from a leather holster and it will still survive a shake or two of the shake test. A kydex holster almost never does this. It also means that the forced needed to overcome the tension is lower with the leather holster, but this is primarily due to the fact that the total tension isn't as high as that of kydex.

    __
    Seriously guys, are we not doing 'phrasing' anymore?

  3. #33
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    This scientist likes this overall approach. Would it not be better to insert a dowel into the muzzle (assuming open-ended holster), hold the holster and press downward against a force plate until the gun pops free? You have a force plate right Rich?
    That wouldn't be in line with the actual draw and could create some off axis forces.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  4. #34
    Wag more, Bark less RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    This scientist likes this overall approach. Would it not be better to insert a dowel into the muzzle (assuming open-ended holster), hold the holster and press downward against a force plate until the gun pops free? You have a force plate right Rich?
    Rob - Sadly, the days where I could go down to Metrology and check out a force gauge are behind me...but I will say the last time I was involved in numberically measurung force did in fact take place in 2019.

    So we had some hot-shot USAF C130J pilots come in to sim cert the FFS for our FAA Level D. The J has a stick pusher, where, if you get close to a stall, the stick pushes down. (the point is get nose down to increase lift)

    Well they came boiling out of the box complaining that when they stalled the airplane, the stick pusher took over as per design but "it weren't near enough force like the aircraft!". (All of us are like, uhhh...this is a design module that has been place for...a long time....)

    Right, says I, so I worked with our engineer to rig up a force gauge up to the control column. We grab some test data during the stall (I'm flying; turns out flying a C130 simulator is not, really, that difficult) and calculate the force. Amazingly enough, we are within 1% or so of design value in the pubs. Huh. Imagine that. We got the defect closed and moved on with life. What is it they say, "feelings lie".
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught.
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