Oregon Capitol Incident 12-21-20

[BehindBlueI's]

I guarantee you my father in law grew up more poor than any of the rioters and communist. Yet he made a life for himself and became quite successful.

Wealth divides in and of themselves don't cause civil unrest. Wealth being highly concentrated in 1-2% of a society is the historical standard, not a modern aberration. A large middle class is the aberration. Great wealth gaps will be tolerated as long as the people feel they have mobility and a chance of improving their lot. Else, order has to be kept purely by force or other forms of coercion. In other words, the Have Nots will accept their lot in life as long as they reasonably believe they have a shot at becoming a Have.

That's being compounded by the differences of the Information Age vs the Industrial or Agricultural Age, not least of which is instantaneous mass communication available to all and the ability of charismatic individuals to spread dissent and rally followers in a much larger way then ever before. People are thirsty for meaning and purpose. Many people don't have that in their lives. Combine with a general feeling society isn't working for them, or is actively working against them, and it's easier for those charismatic individuals to create followers and convince them to protest or riot or even kill. It's even better if you can convince them it's all someone else's fault and that someone else is easy to dehumanize.

[JodyH]

“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
- H.L. Mencken -

"I'm not saying he should have killed her... but I understand."
- Chris Rock -

[Kyle Reese]

Has this been classified as a “mostly peaceful” protest yet? We saw lots of that over the summer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blues]

Mexico is NOT a poor country. Mexico has a lot of poor ]people and a lot of inequity.

Mexico is the 2nd largest economy in South America and the 15th largest economy in the world. yet it has the 4th highest percentage of poor people among 15 richest economies.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

They're not going to like being physically removed from North America...just sayin'.

I wonder how Trump managed to deport the entire country?

[Borderland]

Mexico is NOT a poor country. Mexico has a lot of poor ]people and a lot of inequity.

Mexico is the 2nd largest economy in South America and the 15th largest economy in the world. yet it has the 4th highest percentage of poor people among 15 richest economies.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

There's a bigger economic divide in MX than in the US. The only reason it stays that way is the average Mexican doesn't own a firearm and the gov't makes it damn hard to purchase one. If there were as many SA rifles in MX as there are in the US there would be another revolution. Ever notice the signs going into MX about firearms? My understanding is the economic inequity is what drove the 1910 revolution. Best estimates put the deaths at 1 million. To say that Mexicans except their poor living conditions because of some "value" system seems odd to me. If they were so content why do so many of them try to enter the US illegally? Life expectancy is probably higher than trying to overthrow the federal gov't without any weapons.

Looked like a pretty poor country to me every time I was there. I'm not relying on a google search, but rather what I saw with my own eyes. Of course my travels only included Chihuahua, Sonora and Baja. The streets may be paved with gold in the rest of the country, being so prosperous. IDK.

[Crow Hunter]

Wealth divides in and of themselves don't cause civil unrest. Wealth being highly concentrated in 1-2% of a society is the historical standard, not a modern aberration. A large middle class is the aberration. Great wealth gaps will be tolerated as long as the people feel they have mobility and a chance of improving their lot. Else, order has to be kept purely by force or other forms of coercion. In other words, the Have Nots will accept their lot in life as long as they reasonably believe they have a shot at becoming a Have.

That's being compounded by the differences of the Information Age vs the Industrial or Agricultural Age, not least of which is instantaneous mass communication available to all and the ability of charismatic individuals to spread dissent and rally followers in a much larger way then ever before. People are thirsty for meaning and purpose. Many people don't have that in their lives. Combine with a general feeling society isn't working for them, or is actively working against them, and it's easier for those charismatic individuals to create followers and convince them to protest or riot or even kill. It's even better if you can convince them it's all someone else's fault and that someone else is easy to dehumanize.

God's honest truth. (Or Allah if you prefer).

I WOULD 100% vote for you if you ran for public office. Heck, I would retire early and actively campaign for you just to try to save this country.

[Baldanders]

It’s not ridiculous. What’s ridiculous is people not appreciating how good they have it here.


I guarantee you my father in law grew up more poor than any of the rioters and communist. Yet he made a life for himself and became quite successful. He didn’t burn down buildings and support communism.


Mexico has tons of problems, including culturally. I’m surprised they have only been as bloody as they have. That said, I’ve seen true poverty and those people were not burning things down.

If a person don’t understand this as a values issue, then that person is so naive that it’s scary.

Maybe I just have more respect for poor people than many do, and think that they are just as capable as non poor people at being decent.

A poor person with good values and a quality meaning to his life will do less harm than a rich person with poor values and no meaning.

My maternal grandpa left school in eighth grade to start working to help support his large family. He joined the Army in his 20s, served in the Pacific in WWII, and nearly died from wounds on his way home. He managed to buy land for a house and build his own home, and eventually supported a family with 3 daughters. My grandmother worked some outside the home, but not full time. They farmed a bit too to make ends meet.

I often ask myself, where would a junior high drop-out with no skills beyond a little farming be today? Definitely not joining the military, and probably not ending up owning his own land, ever.

Today ain't yesterday.

[HCM]

There's a bigger economic divide in MX than in the US. The only reason it stays that way is the average Mexican doesn't own a firearm and the gov't makes it damn hard to purchase one. If there were as many SA rifles in MX as there are in the US there would be another revolution. Ever notice the signs going into MX about firearms? My understanding is the economic inequity is what drove the 1910 revolution. Best estimates put the deaths at 1 million. To say that Mexicans except their poor living conditions because of some "value" system seems odd to me. If they were so content why do so many of them try to enter the US illegally? Life expectancy is probably higher than trying to overthrow the federal gov't without any weapons.

Looked like a pretty poor country to me every time I was there. I'm not relying on a google search, but rather what I saw with my own eyes. Of course my travels only included Chihuahua, Sonora and Baja. The streets may be paved with gold in the rest of the country, being so prosperous. IDK.

Gee... I don’t know am I relying on google search or 20 plus years of working border, immigration and customs issues for a living including dealing with Mexicans on a daily basis multiple trips to Mexico and working with Mexican government officials ?

No fishing trips though - maybe that’s my problem ?

There is a bigger economic divide in Mexico ? No shit - that’s what “inequity” means

inequity
noun [ C/U ] fml
US /ɪˈnek·wɪ·t̬i/

the quality of being unfair, or something that is not fair or equal:
[ C ] We’re working to reduce the inequities in school funding.

Like I said - Mexico is not a poor country, it’s a rich country with a lot of poor people and an inequitable economic and political system.

The busiest land border ports in the world in terms of trade are on the U.S. Mexico border. Mexico is also one of the top oil producers, and would produce at least twice as much as they do now if not for corruption and government control of the oil industry.

There are plenty of firearms in Mexico - just not “legally owned” firearms. I’m not just talking about cartel guns, hunting type firearms are ubiquitous in rural areas and 98% of them are “illegal.” There is a lot of “don’t ask don’t tell” going on in rural areas and on ranches etc.

Mexico is not the US. The inequities and corruption there have deep roots.

[HCM]

They're not going to like being physically removed from North America...just sayin'.

I wonder how Trump managed to deport the entire country?

Latin America.

That what they get for referring to us a “Norte Americanos.”

[Borderland]

Gee... I don’t know am I relying on google search or 20 plus years of working border, immigration and customs issues for a living including dealing with Mexicans on a daily basis multiple trips to Mexico and working with Mexican government officials ?

No fishing trips though - maybe that’s my problem ?

There is a bigger economic divide in Mexico ? No shit - that’s what “inequity” means



Like I said - Mexico is not a poor country, it’s a rich country with a lot of poor people and an inequitable economic and political system.

The busiest land border ports in the world in terms of trade are on the U.S. Mexico border. Mexico is also one of the top oil producers, and would produce at least twice as much as they do now if not for corruption and government control of the oil industry.

There are plenty of firearms in Mexico - just not “legally owned” firearms. I’m not just talking about cartel guns, hunting type firearms are ubiquitous in rural areas and 98% of them are “illegal.” There is a lot of “don’t ask don’t tell” going on in rural areas and on ranches etc.

Mexico is not the US. The inequities and corruption there have deep roots.

Well, lets just say we both have a good deal of experience with Mexican's in Mexico and leave it there.