Targets

[Trukinjp13]

I could care less about seeing the skeleton. I want the same landmarks I'd see if I were shooting a real threat - the relationship between eyes/nose/mouth and where the bullet needs to go. I really like the head of this one:

In my target shooting to killing experience, I like to know where bones are that are going to interfere with my bullet path or arrow. I understand that the targets can be to busy but it is nice to know where my shot is headed under the skin. Especially if I do not have a clean shot. I like the target you shown though. Simple and to the point, you hit here they go down.

I hope I am not coming off argumentative. That is just my opinion on why I like to have some targets with the skeleton.

[JohnO]

That is just my opinion on why I like to have some targets with the skeleton.

In a 3D world where targets typically do not stand still a 2D paper target's anatomical representation will only be valid for a shooter directly in front.

[HopetonBrown]

Louis Awerbuck put a lot of thought into the targets used in his classes.



Some clips of his various targets.

[DocGKR]

I sure miss Louis...

[Failure2Stop]

I could care less about seeing the skeleton. I want the same landmarks I'd see if I were shooting a real threat - the relationship between eyes/nose/mouth and where the bullet needs to go. I really like the head of this one:

I made the basis of that target too, haha.
Here's the original:

No, I didn't want to have the "pelvis" on it, wasn't my choice.
Made to fit on a mil "E" backer, not great for most commercial buyers.

It was also picked up by the brits (as the Rapid Incapacitation Target).
Lots of people don't understand the point though.

[Wayne Dobbs]

That target image is what Vegas Metro uses as a training and qual target. I've always thought it was one of the better targets out there for a 2D image. Realistic size and scoring zone (don't think their version has a pelvis zone) with a face on it. The version shown is their daytime version and there's a white on black low light one also.

[Failure2Stop]

That target image is what Vegas Metro uses as a training and qual target. I've always thought it was one of the better targets out there for a 2D image. Realistic size and scoring zone (don't think their version has a pelvis zone) with a face on it. The version shown is their daytime version and there's a white on black low light one also.

It made me laugh the first time I was on their range and saw the target in real life.
I knew it was out there already, just funny to see them being used in bulk, and to hear folks talk about it not knowing my involvement.

The target I have seen in use there is exactly the same as the above "SCSO-08" picture, cut off at the waist of the "body" in comparison to the USMC-SRQ.

[Mr_White]

Too bad we can't market what they used on Mythbusters and Forged In Fire, ballsitics gel dummies with skeletons. Cool for TV, too expensive by far for the range.

Please don't forget Deadliest Warrior...

[DacoRoman]

I'm really not sure we're disagreeing over much. For me, I find it easier to visualize a good frontal shot by drawing a vertical line down the middle and a horizontal line across at armpit level. Beyond that visualizing the spine and shooting for it works with more complex angles.

I'm really not sure we're disagreeing over much. For me, I find it easier to visualize a good frontal shot by drawing a vertical line down the middle and a horizontal line across at armpit level. Beyond that visualizing the spine and shooting for it works with more complex angles.

Sorry for the late reply.

I think looking at targets using a simplified vertical line like that makes a lot of sense. The horizontal line coming through the lower armpits region also seems to me like a great reference point, and the top of the heart/great vessel region is pretty much right there. If the attacker's arms are up, holding a gun for example, aiming just below the crosshair but no lower then the nipples should make for a good target as well, unless the target is leaning forward aggressively, in which case the original crosshair region should be best.

The reason I mentioned the "T" in an earlier post though is that if the rounds can be kept midline from the cardiovascular region and on up the chance of getting a spinal cord and brain stem hit is obviously increased.

On this last note, I just finished a John McPhee class (one day carbine, one day pistol). We talked about this topic. His favorite approach while in the Unit (he doesn't like the "D" word) was to do a 3 round "zipper" drill with the first shot into the upper torso, second into the neck, and third between the eyes/head, all as midline as possible. The shot sequence/timing is 1,2,3, riding the recoil up, with no gap in the cadence of the shots, as quickly as accuracy can be maintained: upper chest -> neck -> middle of credit card/between the eyes, once again, with an emphasis on staying as midline as possible, and less so on shooting an exact point along the vertical line. To paraphrase what he said: "We found that even good cardiovascular hits that were "kill shots" could take minutes to incapacitate; the only way we got immediate incapacitation shots where with CNS hits". We ran that drill and I found it very practicable, and while no timer was used, based on the cadence of the shots I think I was getting .25s to .30s splits. With practice it seems like split times wouldn't suffer very much. He also said that he prefers keeping the neck shot in there instead of just going all the way up form the chest to the the head so as not to miss an opportunity to get an incapacitating hit while riding the recoil up anyway, to paraphrase: "why waste the time without getting a potentially good shot in".

[scjbash]

I could care less about seeing the skeleton. I want the same landmarks I'd see if I were shooting a real threat - the relationship between eyes/nose/mouth and where the bullet needs to go. I really like the head of this one:

Do you have a source for paper versions of that target by chance? I can only find cardboard.