Shooting with thumb blocking back plate and other non-best practice items

[Clusterfrack]

...And not have to worry about getting tangled in the slide.

I did some on the clock dryfire with the LCR 9mm. My timer picks up the hammer drop, so the times are real.

Strong hand only AIWB draw inside the shirt to thumb-pec index shot: 0.53s. I’m really warming to the snubby for defensive applications.

[BehindBlueI's]

If my gun is out and pointed at the bad guy, it's already gone off at least once...

Has it?

And if you're entangled before you have the opportunity to draw? If you are knocked down and entangled? I mentioned the murder of a man in a craigslist style robbery in the OP's other thread. He was able to pull his gun but never fire.

I'd be hesitant to assume you know how a gunfight will go.

I'd also point out the original context is for LE, where it's a higher percentage concern. Since ground fights can become deadly force events once they are on the ground, suspects attempt to access the officer's exposed weapons, etc., a contested draw and ability to fire is a pretty useful skill to have.

[Ronin.45]

Has it?

And if you're entangled before you have the opportunity to draw? If you are knocked down and entangled? I mentioned the murder of a man in a craigslist style robbery in the OP's other thread. He was able to pull his gun but never fire.

I'd be hesitant to assume you know how a gunfight will go.

I'd also point out the original context is for LE, where it's a higher percentage concern. Since ground fights can become deadly force events once they are on the ground, suspects attempt to access the officer's exposed weapons, etc., a contested draw and ability to fire is a pretty useful skill to have.

If I'm able to access my gun and draw it, I can't see how I'd be entangled enough that my trigger finger doesn't work. I'm not even extending the gun out enough to make muzzle contact. Even if they got a hand on it, it's unlikely they would make it inoperable.

[Clusterfrack]

If I'm able to access my gun and draw it, I can't see how I'd be entangled enough that my trigger finger doesn't work. I'm not even extending the gun out enough to make muzzle contact. Even if they got a hand on it, it's unlikely they would make it inoperable.

The fucked up tangle (FUT) is an unpredictable place to be. On the mat, I've had my bluegun out of the holster and was nowhere near able to get on the trigger.

[BehindBlueI's]

If I'm able to access my gun and draw it, I can't see how I'd be entangled enough that my trigger finger doesn't work. I'm not even extending the gun out enough to make muzzle contact. Even if they got a hand on it, it's unlikely they would make it inoperable.

Contact shots aren't about the bad guy's hand fouling the gun. It's about actually placing the muzzle of the gun against the bad guy and pulling the trigger as both a means of increasing the damage done (gas enters the wound) and as a means to ensure you are shooting the bad guy and not yourself.

Have you done any ECQC training or other grappling force on force with sim guns?

[Ronin.45]

Contact shots aren't about the bad guy's hand fouling the gun. It's about actually placing the muzzle of the gun against the bad guy and pulling the trigger as both a means of increasing the damage done (gas enters the wound) and as a means to ensure you are shooting the bad guy and not yourself.

Have you done any ECQC training or other grappling force on force with sim guns?

Read my post again and try to understand what I wrote.

[BehindBlueI's]

The fucked up tangle (FUT) is an unpredictable place to be. On the mat, I've had my bluegun out of the holster and was nowhere near able to get on the trigger.

Real world example:

Knocked down
Eyes gouged while using hands to protect weapon, resulting in very limited vision
On his back while attacker continued to pound away at him
Accessed gun but immediately got into a struggle over it
Shot with own gun as both "contestants" fought over it.
Non-fatally, luckily.

IIRC, the gun was not able to eject the cartridge which rendered it inoperable. At some point the bad guy ran, likely due to hearing sirens and was caught shortly thereafter. Not a real big guy, just a very dedicated attacker.

[BehindBlueI's]

Read my post again and try to understand what I wrote.

I understand what you wrote and how you imagine it will go.

Have you done any ECQC training or entangled FoF using sim guns?

[JCN]

Real world example:

Knocked down
Eyes gouged while using hands to protect weapon, resulting in very limited vision
On his back while attacker continued to pound away at him
Accessed gun but immediately got into a struggle over it
Shot with own gun as both "contestants" fought over it.
Non-fatally, luckily.

IIRC, the gun was not able to eject the cartridge which rendered it inoperable. At some point the bad guy ran, likely due to hearing sirens and was caught shortly thereafter. Not a real big guy, just a very dedicated attacker.

Maybe if he had racked it with one hand on his leg! (Just kidding)

Revolvers

I knew I liked you! I love when people are willing to put things on a timer to see proof of concept.

I have an 8 shot 327 in 357 magnum that is my favorite large pocket gun.

I think cylinder gap blast would make that shot pretty unpleasant.

Can you try the same draw and fire with an auto loader with your thumb on back plate?

[Clusterfrack]

I think cylinder gap blast would make that shot pretty unpleasant.

Can you try the same draw and fire with an auto loader with your thumb on back plate?

The LCR 9mm has a lot of cylinder “free bore”, and seems less blasty than other snubbies I’ve shot. I’m willing to try a live shot, but with a heavy rash guard and a t shirt I don’t like.

I just did a similar dryfire draw with a P-07, under a light weight sweater, and it worked surprisingly well. The bigger-than-Glock trigger guard was helpful.

About thumb on backplate: obviously that’s not an option with a TDA. Also, all of my Glocks have Gadgets. The motivation is to prevent a malfunction, or to keep the slide in battery on contact? A thumb-pec index shot ideally shouldn’t result in a contact shot.

A while back we (@mr_white) experimented with firing from inside a t-shirt wrapped around the gun. It was surprisingly difficult to make the gun malfunction.

Why not just pocket carry? Good question. I just don’t find pocket carry comfortable, and am used to having the gun AIWB.