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Thread: 'Automatic weapons' in UCR data

  1. #1

    'Automatic weapons' in UCR data

    I saw a link to the 2019 weapon type data:

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2019/table...olved_2019.pdf

    I hadn't seen the 'automatic' breakout before. I was surprised that e.g. 45 of the 216 rifle murders were with automatic rifles - my first thought was that they might have an odd definition of automatic, but it look like they are using the normal one (see the page numbered as 93):

    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/...93020.pdf/view

    Maybe old news, but I hadn't seen that before.

  2. #2
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomever View Post
    I saw a link to the 2019 weapon type data:

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2019/table...olved_2019.pdf

    I hadn't seen the 'automatic' breakout before. I was surprised that e.g. 45 of the 216 rifle murders were with automatic rifles - my first thought was that they might have an odd definition of automatic, but it look like they are using the normal one (see the page numbered as 93):

    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/...93020.pdf/view

    Maybe old news, but I hadn't seen that before.
    I'm extremely skeptical on that. UCR/NIBRS info is only as good as the data fed in by the various departments and I would suggest maybe some of those folks entering data aren't as familiar with definitions as they should be. Unless other parts of the country are radically different, there's no way roughly 1:5 murder rifles are automatics. I can't think of a single case of fully auto used in any of my cases. Not to say there aren't cases I wasn't involved in or don't know about, but that's hundreds of cases. The last one I know for sure of was the murder of a police officer and that nearly 40 years ago.
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  3. #3
    That was my first thought, but clearly it isn't just just generally confusing semi vs full auto. The handgun numbers are 2517:123. That can't mean that 2517-123=2394 were revolvers and only 123 semi autos. The 123 seems high, too, though, but I dunno, maybe the gang bangers were ordering those Glock full auto thingys from China.

    But yeah, it seems odd to me too.

  4. #4
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    I recently talked about this with an old friend of mine, who's closing in on 20 years of uniformed service as an ABQ PD officer and currently works intel/UC stuff.
    He was curious himself and could not find a single instance in APD's historical database of recovering a select-fire or full auto rifle caliber weapon. He did say that only goes back to the early 70's so there's a chance for some GI bringback of some kind before that in the old paper records, but he doubted it.

    He got curious because he's been working a few cases involving Wish Glock sears, and prior to that full autos being recovered from perps was almost completely unheard of.

  5. #5
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomever View Post
    That was my first thought, but clearly it isn't just just generally confusing semi vs full auto. The handgun numbers are 2517:123. That can't mean that 2517-123=2394 were revolvers and only 123 semi autos. The 123 seems high, too, though, but I dunno, maybe the gang bangers were ordering those Glock full auto thingys from China.

    But yeah, it seems odd to me too.
    I would suggest that it's easier to confuse a rifle then a handgun for many non-gun people and many cops and civilian personnel are not gun people even if they are armed. I know it's not entirely uncommon for people to think the "AR" in "AR-15" means Automatic Rifle, after all. The rifle just...looks more automatic-y?

    We have a UCR/NIBRS compliancy office but they only check that the crime types are correct. That's not as simple as it might seem, as UCR/NIBRS crime types are sometimes different from the state code and that causes confusion. I don't think anyone verifies any of the other information, as I've never had a report kicked back to me or to one of my officers for any reason other then crime type mismatch.
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  6. #6
    There's no way. Someone is checking the wrong box on the report.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    Did they consider the las vegas bump stock shooting to be automatic?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Did they consider the las vegas bump stock shooting to be automatic?
    I'm not sure they were breaking things out by 'automatic' in 2017:

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-8.xls

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I'm extremely skeptical on that. UCR/NIBRS info is only as good as the data fed in by the various departments and I would suggest maybe some of those folks entering data aren't as familiar with definitions as they should be. Unless other parts of the country are radically different, there's no way roughly 1:5 murder rifles are automatics. I can't think of a single case of fully auto used in any of my cases. Not to say there aren't cases I wasn't involved in or don't know about, but that's hundreds of cases. The last one I know for sure of was the murder of a police officer and that nearly 40 years ago.
    I'd bet that this is almost certainly the answer. Information from Supplemental Homicide Reports is generally pretty questionable.

  10. #10
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    Just a thought past my bedtime, so no research or real analysis:

    With many departments SWAT and other units have rifles with "group therapy" settings. Some of them also actually shoot and kill people. I wonder how many of those homicides were "justified" or "excusable" upon classification....

    I would not blink twice at hearing that statistic if terms were a little more fleshed out, and included line of duty stuff. Also, automatic may follow the "capable of..." definition, rather than "giggle switch was set on full instead of semi..." Any insights @HCM?

    I also would not doubt wrong boxes being checked by clerical folks, as one of our clerical folks just messed up pretty big with a simple paperwork routing error, causing the local courts to scold the department via letterhead.

    pat
    Last edited by UNM1136; 12-17-2020 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Correcting spelling.

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