ATF raids polymer 80.

[DDTSGM]

In June of 2018 I bought two new Glock 17/22 frames to build dedicated .22LR conversions, my records show a $75.00 price each, $125.00 including shipping and transfer.

A couple of months ago I couldn't find them in stock so I bought a polymer 80 kit to put under a Glock 24 slide assembly. It cost 150.00.

Although I've never built one, I've noticed that the 80% AR lowers are generally more than the lowers I buy online. Plus you have to pay for the jig.

I don't think it's cost savings that drives non-criminals.

Pretty sure I've only read of one incident where an 80% AR was used, do any of you have further knowledge? And if so, does that knowledge include whether the lowers were completed using a router or a CNC or other mill?

Just curious.

[HCM]

In June of 2018 I bought two new Glock 17/22 frames to build dedicated .22LR conversions, my records show a $75.00 price each, $125.00 including shipping and transfer.

A couple of months ago I couldn't find them in stock so I bought a polymer 80 kit to put under a Glock 24 slide assembly. It cost 150.00.

Although I've never built one, I've noticed that the 80% AR lowers are generally more than the lowers I buy online. Plus you have to pay for the jig.

I don't think it's cost savings that drives non-criminals.

Pretty sure I've only read of one incident where an 80% AR was used, do any of you have further knowledge? And if so, does that knowledge include whether the lowers were completed using a router or a CNC or other mill?

Just curious.

Here are three high profile examples from post 36 in this thread. I'm personally aware of and have seized several other 80% guns used in crimes or in the possession of prohibited persons.

Not just California. There are individuals building these specifically for unlawful distribution to members of extremist groups on both the right and the left. There are also unscrupulous individuals building 80% guns for resale to prohibited persons and criminal organizations. A PF Member and LEO (not from CA) recently mentioned recovering one of these.

Some notable instances of 80% used in crimes:

The John Brown Gun Club Member who attacked the ICE detention Center in Tacoma WA last year was a prohibited person who used an 80% lower AR he built in a JBGC "build party." https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...tifa-manifesto

The recent mass shooter in Midland/Odessa TX was a prohibited person who used an 80% lower AR he purchased from an unlicensed dealer/manufacturer to soot 32 people. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr...lty-unlicensed

The "Boogaloo Boy" who killed a Federal Protective Service Guard and wounded another in Oakland, CA then ambushed Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Deputies, killing a SCSD Sgt and wounding two deputies used an 80% lower 9mm AR with a 80% suppressor. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/wp...-complaint.pdf

The Tacoma shooter's AR was made in a 80% "build party" held and live streamed by the JBGC in someone's garage. They used a drill held in one of those "convert your drill to a drill press" stands.

[jetfire]

Here are three high profile examples from post 36 in this thread. I'm personally aware of and have seized several other 80% guns used in crimes or in the possession of prohibited persons.



The Tacoma shooter's AR was made in a 80% "build party" held and live streamed by the JBGC in someone's garage. They used a drill held in one of those "convert your drill to a drill press" stands.

Don't forget that dirtbag who ambushed those two deputies in Compton used an 80% build. It is undeniable that these builds are turning up as crime guns.

[whomever]

"I've noticed that the 80% AR lowers are generally more than the lowers I buy online."

IMHE, that is yuuugely dependent on timing. When panic mode is on, yep, 80%'s sell high. But you wait for the post panic slump they sell for peanuts. I think I've gotten them as low as $9.99 or something ridiculous like that, with "Free Shipping Over $25!" or somesuch. Definetely in the 'I don't need an AR, but for that price...'. I don't see stripped lowers at the local shops for under $40 or $50, and if I order one online there is a $25 or more transfer fee, per lower.

After making one from a 0% forging, doing an 80% isn't exactly an all day job, so for me they can make economic sense. The one from a 0% forging, or the 'billet' 1911 were for the challenge, not the price. And the AR upper, which is a lot harder than a lower, surely wasn't to save money or avoid a background check :-)

"Plus you have to pay for the jig."

Not if you already have the milling machine :-).

As an aside, I could see someone who had no machining background being pretty chuffed to make an 80% with a jig ... 'I made it myself!'. If you aren't new to machining, it's not much of a challenge.

[Totem Polar]

I still shake my head at the sheer idiocy of buying a 80% lower, "solvent trap" or whatever online, with a credit card and having it shipped to your house.

I had, HAD a boss, once upon a time, who bought child pornography DVDs using a university credit card, and had them shipped to his office. It took a while, but the eventual result of those choices was spectacular. As in, above-the-fold headline spectacular.

[Lester Polfus]

I had, HAD a boss, once upon a time, who bought child pornography DVDs using a university credit card, and had them shipped to his office. It took a while, but the eventual result of those choices was spectacular. As in, above-the-fold headline spectacular.

I worked a case very similar to that once. Very satisfying to put handcuffs on those people.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I hate to divert the thread, but:

In grad school, we had a department mail room. Everyday, a giant mail bag was dumped into a bin. The head secretary was the only one who could sort the mail. She was an older type. Very prim. We used to wait for the mail with baited breath. The mail contained letters about jobs, publication and grant reviews - all kinds of important career items.

So we would wait in our offices until we knew the mail was distributed. One day, at mail time, there was a hideous scream of horror. Folks ran to the mail room and the old secretary was pointing in the bin. A bomb? No - it was a large, full color picture of a blow job. It seems one faculty member had his porn delivered in the brown paper wrapping to the department. It busted open when dumped.

Now, from that day on, he had to get to mail room first to get normal packages as they would disappear. Sometimes they would reappear, all taped together as folks were looking for porn. Haha.

Back to the kits.

[DDTSGM]

Here are three high profile examples from post 36 in this thread. I'm personally aware of and have seized several other 80% guns used in crimes or in the possession of prohibited persons.

The Tacoma shooter's AR was made in a 80% "build party" held and live streamed by the JBGC in someone's garage. They used a drill held in one of those "convert your drill to a drill press" stands.

Don't forget that dirtbag who ambushed those two deputies in Compton used an 80% build. It is undeniable that these builds are turning up as crime guns.

Compton was the one I was thinking of, forgot the ICE building in Tacoma.

The 80% AR lowers are more complicated to build out, I was just curious if anyone had info that a criminal was producing them on a wholesale basis using actual milling machines.

Thanks.

[DDTSGM]

"Plus you have to pay for the jig."

Not if you already have the milling machine :-).

As an aside, I could see someone who had no machining background being pretty chuffed to make an 80% with a jig ... 'I made it myself!'. If you aren't new to machining, it's not much of a challenge.

Thanks for that perspective, I really hadn't looked extensively at 80% lowers, usually on AIM or another site while ordering stripped lowers.

And those last sentences, well, as we all know, that's why gun control will never succeed in eradicating firearms in the United States.

Off topic, and a joke to boot: I really want and Umbrella WRG lower for my collection of cool logo lowers. I've been on the wait list forever, maybe it's time to get a hold of someone unscrupulous who can do the logo. Just kidding Mr. ATF, just kidding. I don't even use pistol braces, I'm clean man, clean.

[HCM]

Compton was the one I was thinking of, forgot the ICE building in Tacoma.

The 80% AR lowers are more complicated to build out, I was just curious if anyone had info that a criminal was producing them on a wholesale basis using actual milling machines.

Thanks.

Producing 80% or finished guns ?

I don't see a motive for someone to make 80% or even finished receivers from scratch when 80% are available. I'm aware of covert machine shops in Mexico producing upper and lower AR receivers from scratch. In one instance they were marking them as Colt M16s since that is what the Mexican Marines use. But that's because smuggling an 80% into MX is just as much work as smuggling a whole gun.

The subject who supplied the Midland Odessa shooter was making complete guns from 80% and selling them to prohibited persons.

In his plea papers, Mr. Braziel admitted he routinely bought firearm firing mechanisms (termed “lower receivers”), used milling equipment to build them into full-fledged guns, and then sold the completed weapons for roughly $100 - $200 profit. He said he typically listed his firearms for sale on Armslist.com and conducted the sales in the parking lot of a local sporting goods store or out of his garage.

In a four-year span, Mr. Braziel inadvertently sold firearms to four prohibited persons: a convicted felon, an man under felony indictment, an immigrant in the U.S. illegally, and Mr. Ator, a man who the courts deemed unfit to possess a firearm.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr...lty-unlicensed

I've seen a couple skilled / knowledgeable individuals buying 80% for cash or via smurfing, finishing them and knowingly selling them to prohibited persons, including 80% Glocks, ARs, and in one instance an 80% 1911. I'm also aware of other examples of individuals building and distributing 80% with in their extremist group to ensure their members are ready for the "impending race war."

If you check the "seized gun check in" thread on PF you will see an LE member from OH recently seized an 80% AR from a prohibited suspect which was "professionally" finished by a 3rd party building guns for resale.