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Thread: ATF raids polymer 80.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    That sort of goes back to specific state (DC being my original theory, but CA seems like a strong contender now) being the driving focus on this. Would the Tucson office have any overlap with CA, since that's the office on the alleged surrender form circulating online? The only one I've found, anyway.

    I still can't find a pdf of the warrant or warrant application, which is starting to bug me since I'd really like some resolution on this. I figured as much attention as this got someone would have posted it by now. It's not sealed per multiple articles.
    If its not sealed, and you really want it, you can search for it on the Public Access to Court Electronic (PACER) system. https://pacer.uscourts.gov

    PACER is a pay system, BUT if your use is less than $30 in a quarter the fees are waived. Also, the cost of any one document is capped at $3, so the vast majority of PACER users never pay any fees.

    So if want to find/read the affidavit, and its not sealed, that is probably your best bet, and it shouldn't cost you anything other than time.

    When searching for the docket that contains the warrant, search the US District Court where the warrant was served. If the news articles are correct, the warrant was served in Nevada, and there is only one US District for the entire State of Nevada, and that should be the court where the warrant was issued.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  2. #92
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    If its not sealed, and you really want it, you can search for it on the Public Access to Court Electronic (PACER) system. https://pacer.uscourts.gov

    PACER is a pay system, BUT if your use is less than $30 in a quarter the fees are waived. Also, the cost of any one document is capped at $3, so the vast majority of PACER users never pay any fees.

    So if want to find/read the affidavit, and its not sealed, that is probably your best bet, and it shouldn't cost you anything other than time.

    When searching for the docket that contains the warrant, search the US District Court where the warrant was served. If the news articles are correct, the warrant was served in Nevada, and there is only one US District for the entire State of Nevada, and that should be the court where the warrant was issued.
    Thanks! I'll take a look at that this evening. I knew how to do it for our state but had no idea that was an option for federal warrants.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....58#post1151858

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    If its not sealed, and you really want it, you can search for it on the Public Access to Court Electronic (PACER) system. https://pacer.uscourts.gov

    PACER is a pay system, BUT if your use is less than $30 in a quarter the fees are waived. Also, the cost of any one document is capped at $3, so the vast majority of PACER users never pay any fees.

    So if want to find/read the affidavit, and its not sealed, that is probably your best bet, and it shouldn't cost you anything other than time.

    When searching for the docket that contains the warrant, search the US District Court where the warrant was served. If the news articles are correct, the warrant was served in Nevada, and there is only one US District for the entire State of Nevada, and that should be the court where the warrant was issued.
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Thanks! I'll take a look at that this evening. I knew how to do it for our state but had no idea that was an option for federal warrants.
    I don't recall ever seeing search warrants in PACER (and I use it enough to where I normally have to pay every quarter ). I just checked a few of my cases, and don't see any search warrants, unless they're in there as sealed documents.

    EDIT: The only thing I see for Polymer80 in Nevada federal court is a civil suit filed last month: Polymer80, Inc. v. Glock.

    A criminal case isn't going to show up in PACER until there's an indictment, complaint, etc.
    Last edited by TC215; 12-15-2020 at 11:16 AM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Thanks! I'll take a look at that this evening. I knew how to do it for our state but had no idea that was an option for federal warrants.
    You're welcome, but you will only find it if the media reports are correct that the affidavit wasn't sealed. If sealed eventually it will get unsealed, and be available, but that might not happen for a while.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    I don't recall ever seeing search warrants in PACER (and I use it enough to where I normally have to pay every quarter ). I just checked a few of my cases, and don't see any search warrants, unless they're in there as sealed documents.
    If they aren't sealed they should part of the docket, and should be available through PACER. I know complaint and search warrant affidavits I have done, and several of my friends have done, have been published in the media, after reporters pulled them off PACER. I don't typically search PACER for that stuff, so maybe something has changed.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    If they aren't sealed they should part of the docket, and should be available through PACER. I know complaint and search warrant affidavits I have done, and several of my friends have done, have been published in the media, after reporters pulled them off PACER. I don't typically search PACER for that stuff, so maybe something has changed.
    I just went through a few more cases, and still don't see any search warrants. They could be filed under seal, so they just show up listed as "sealed document" on the docket. Who knows.

    I also checked the California districts for any Polymer80 cases, and did not see any.

  7. #97
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    I just went through a few more cases, and still don't see any search warrants. They could be filed under seal, so they just show up listed as "sealed document" on the docket. Who knows.

    I also checked the California districts for any Polymer80 cases, and did not see any.
    Dammit. Thanks for checking, got my hopes up for a minute.

    Is there any chance this is related to civil action by a state? I don't understand civil or federal law to that point so don't know if the ATF would be involved.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....58#post1151858

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  8. #98
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    Here’s the warrant application if you were interested:

    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/d...20-warrant.pdf

  9. #99
    Quite a few pages of the warrant are posted here:

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...tomer-records/

  10. #100
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spockrock View Post
    Here’s the warrant application if you were interested:

    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/d...20-warrant.pdf
    YES, thank you!

    The relevant bit starts at page 19 and then continues on for awhile. It definitely shoots my "related to the DC lawsuit" right in the ass. This is being driven largely by CA, it seems, but under federal law. The crime stats are interesting as far as why they think it's an issue, but not really the meat of the problem. In a nutshell, something that is 'readily converted' to a firearm is, for ATF's purposes, a firearm. Polymer80 submitted a frame and asked if it was good to go but implied it was going in a kit. ATF says we can't say unless you send us the whole kit. Polymer80 does not submit the proposed kit and then offers for sale a kit that contains even more then the proposed kit.

    An ATF agent then puts a kit together in 3 hours. Which sounds like a long time, and is. But the hangup was a QC issue with one kit that had to be fixed. Once it was "as supposed to be delivered" the time was 19 minutes from opening the box to functional firearm.

    They gave one to an auto mechanic who had never built one before, gave him no instruction but access to YouTube videos, and he built it in 21 minutes.

    The ATF ordered kits with 10 round magazines for CA and the kits they got had a 15 round and 17 round magazine, respectively.

    The ATF had records of kits going overseas directly as well as a group using the kits to build guns then sending them to Lebanon.

    I don't know enough about ITAR to know what components you can and can't ship abroad, so I won't even go into that. The magazine issue would be a state issue, I would think. So the question is at what point is something "readily convertible" and does 21 minutes for a mechanically inclined rookie builder count? I have no idea, but I suppose the courts may be weighing in soon.

    And thanks again for finding that.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....58#post1151858

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

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