Presscheck Consulting No-Fail Pistol for LE, modified for the 'Rona

[paherne]

I'd like to hear more about Chuck's theory. I enjoy B-8 targets at 25, it's one of my better skills with a pistol. But I have a hard time understanding how that slow-fire flat-range accuracy helps in dynamic FoF. I know a number of people who really struggle with 25 yard B-8's, but they do just as good as me in FoF. Which made me think that slow fire accuracy at 25 yards was of little importance for FoF or most *real* gunfights. So I'd appreciate any of Chuck's rationale you can share, or your own thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for bringing my attention back to this AAR; work and a K9/skunk incident consumed my time this week.

So, you practice at 25 yards, but there is a test, on the timer, on the B-8 where you shoot as fast as you can clean 5 rounds from the holster. Ergo, 15 yards, freestyle, get 5 hits in the black as fast as you can. Lowest clean score time wins. One shot out of the black, you fail. You get three attempts.

He does this for every evolution, with slight variations. It's really not about competition, but knowing your abilities and skill level to make a high-liability shot under pressure where you cannot fail.

It's really an evaluation system to determine where you are. Left hand only, I think I cleaned a B-8 at 10 yards in 9.08 seconds. That's miserable. I obviously need to work on my left hand only shooting, among other things.

As to Chuck's thoughts on the accuracy required in gunfights, he notes that in his opinion most offenders shot by police are psychological stops, rather than physiological ones. His system accounts for that and relies more on physiological changes to produce the desired effect. He has the requisite experience to confidently make this claim.

I discussed posting a matrix of all the various drills, yardages, etc. with a friend who is an experienced trainer and student of the gun. My sense is that the internet is great for passing along bits of information. I believe to obtain the full experience, you really have to attend one of his classes and posting the drills, etc. leaves out the most important information, the why.

[MVS]

So I am going to be honest here, I have been to a LOT of classes. I have never not went to a class because I was worried about looking bad. The more I see on Chuck's classes, the more I want to attend but at the same time, the more I think I may have to wear a mask so nobody recognizes me.

[paherne]

So I am going to be honest here, I have been to a LOT of classes. I have never not went to a class because I was worried about looking bad. The more I see on Chuck's classes, the more I want to attend but at the same time, the more I think I may have to wear a mask so nobody recognizes me.

There were guys that were killing it in the class. I just sucked. It is, after all, my AAR.

I tend to be a glass half-empty guy.

[Mark D]

Thanks for bringing my attention back to this AAR; work and a K9/skunk incident consumed my time this week.

So, you practice at 25 yards, but there is a test, on the timer, on the B-8 where you shoot as fast as you can clean 5 rounds from the holster. Ergo, 15 yards, freestyle, get 5 hits in the black as fast as you can. Lowest clean score time wins. One shot out of the black, you fail. You get three attempts.

He does this for every evolution, with slight variations. It's really not about competition, but knowing your abilities and skill level to make a high-liability shot under pressure where you cannot fail.

It's really an evaluation system to determine where you are. Left hand only, I think I cleaned a B-8 at 10 yards in 9.08 seconds. That's miserable. I obviously need to work on my left hand only shooting, among other things.

As to Chuck's thoughts on the accuracy required in gunfights, he notes that in his opinion most offenders shot by police are psychological stops, rather than physiological ones. His system accounts for that and relies more on physiological changes to produce the desired effect. He has the requisite experience to confidently make this claim.

I discussed posting a matrix of all the various drills, yardages, etc. with a friend who is an experienced trainer and student of the gun. My sense is that the internet is great for passing along bits of information. I believe to obtain the full experience, you really have to attend one of his classes and posting the drills, etc. leaves out the most important information, the why.

Thanks for elaborating. I've done KD4's pistol class, and that's fairly B-8 centric, but it sounds like Chuck takes it to the next level.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Could the NYC cathedral shooting on 12/13 with the distance involved and the bad guy's limited exposures be an argument in favor of what Chuck is teaching?

[Dave Williams]

Thanks for the review, I always enjoy these threads.

There's an USPSA GM on instagram who goes by "xrayalpha" who is also ex-CAG like Chuck. He just posted this the other day "I have shot my fair share of B8s in the past, from a practical standpoint you need to move past this type of training quickly. Fundamentals don’t change but become increasingly difficult at speed and surprising enough gunfights are fast."

The differing takes are interesting.

[David S.]

Thanks for the review, I always enjoy these threads.

There's an USPSA GM on instagram who goes by "xrayalpha" who is also ex-CAG like Chuck. He just posted this the other day "I have shot my fair share of B8s in the past, from a practical standpoint you need to move past this type of training quickly. Fundamentals don’t change but become increasingly difficult at speed and surprising enough gunfights are fast."

The differing takes are interesting.

In the comments:

[Eyesquared]

To put the GM speed and accuracy into perspective, there is a video on Jason Bradley's (#2 at CO Nats this year) instagram of him shooting 0.5s splits at 25 yards on a 6"x6" USPSA head with 100% hits. If you put those hits on a B8 those would be 9s and mostly 10s and Xs.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAQhsuNJpyM/?igshid=eibwbp5surlm

[Joe]

The issue, among many, was that people could draw and/or shoot super fast but their hits were inconsequential to the gunfight. They could get very short splits but were putting rounds in the shoulder, gut, leg, etc. Not in places that turned people off immediately. If you shoot someone in the gut 5 times but he doesn't want to stop, he can very well shoot you dead and then proceed to bleed out. In the No Fail outlook, for a slightly slower speed, you can put one or two shots in the heart or brain and end the fight conclusively. With paint, it isn't as dramatic. It is not about ignoring speed, but it is refusing to accept "shooting like an asshole" just to get your splits in the teens.

I'd like to hear more about Chuck's theory. I enjoy B-8 targets at 25, it's one of my better skills with a pistol. But I have a hard time understanding how that slow-fire flat-range accuracy helps in dynamic FoF. I know a number of people who really struggle with 25 yard B-8's, but they do just as good as me in FoF. Which made me think that slow fire accuracy at 25 yards was of little importance for FoF or most *real* gunfights. So I'd appreciate any of Chuck's rationale you can share, or your own thoughts on the matter.

[AMC]

There were guys that were killing it in the class. I just sucked. It is, after all, my AAR.

I tend to be a glass half-empty guy.

I dunno....Ali told me you did pretty well. And said you seemed like a good dude. If you're good with him, you're doing okay.