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Thread: Firm grip = flinch low left. WTF

  1. #31
    Site Supporter JRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Often, and especially in males, tension comes from trying to look manly while shooting a gun.
    Or having your first exposure to pistol shooting come from a LE academy.

    Butts back, shoulders scrunched to the ears, arms locked, “flinch reaction/body index” nonsense. The whole line looked like a jazzercise class mid-squat.

    Be flexible, be mobile, head stays up, gun comes to the eyeline, and let grip strength, visual feedback, and experience with cadence drive the pace.
    Well, you may be a man. You may be a leprechaun. Only one thing’s for sure… you’re in the wrong basement.

  2. #32
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRV View Post
    ....“flinch reaction/body index” nonsense. The whole line looked like a jazzercise class mid-squat.
    LOL!
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  3. #33
    An earlier poster mentioned doubled plugging. I wanted to chime back in to second that. Double plugging made an immediate BIG difference in my flinch. I totally forgot about it until I read the previous poster mention it. That and shooting outside vs. inside. Less perceived bang, less flinch from me. I imagine it's similar to what you're seeing with the .22 vs. 9mm

    Another quick thought. You mentioned "mainly dummy rounds" in the mag. I know it sounds very similar but that is a very different drill than the alternating ball and dummy drill. Knowing exactly which is the live round and then following immediately with the dummy is the key part of the progress to that drill to my understanding. I wasted a lot of time with random ball and dummy "surprises" in the mag and made much faster progress with Ball, Dummy, Ball, Dummy... shot as a 1...2...pause, 1...2...pause.



    Also, two quick questions for the OP...

    1) What distance were those last targets you posted at? If I was putting up targets like that at 10 yards I'd be looking to add speed and splits at the same distance by practicing doubles to check my grip.

    2) You mention "medium speed" and "much faster". Is that 1 second splits? 0.5 splits? Faster than that for "much faster pace"? (might be about time to get a shot timer if you don't have one yet)


    Personally, a truly light grip leaves me splitting at over a second per shot if I just let the gun fall back into place on its own and I can't get into the 0.2's unless I really crank down on the gun. But I've also got under 4k rounds downrange so that's not necessarily advice to take to heart unless seconded by the more experienced on here.
    Last edited by NoTacTravis; 12-07-2020 at 09:03 PM.

  4. #34
    Hammertime
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto View Post
    Wow, that video was great, thank you. His points lined up exactly with my experiences.

    • It is not a trigger pull issue (where my trigger finger causes the gun to go off target). I have no problem with dry fire. But once I start live firing, the tactile response to my brain of the trigger about to break, and I flinch
    • His solutions were mostly mental. Yes, he said the weak hand support can help minimize the damage, but most if it was tricking your brain to not be able to react before the gun goes bang
    • I've observed that more of a firm wall the trigger has, the worse I shoot the gun. On a DA/SA gun I do as well with the DA as the SA because it's just along linear pull and at some point you're surprised by a break. But give me a gun with a firm wall to push through and I'm terrible


    Unfortunately, he admitted it's not easy to fix - he continues to struggle with it. He also points out that a lot of instructors don't understand it and don't know what to do with it.

    I'm quite pleased that I've already figured out how to mitigate it by keeping my grip more relaxed. I hoping I can work from there and build some positive muscle memory, and slowly start adding in more and more grip - left hand first.
    You have a lot of insight and are well on your way to becoming an excellent shooter.

    This is also a nice drill:



    I also found it helpful to do a drill where you pull the trigger almost to the break then let off. Do this multiple times slowly increasing pressure until the shot finally breaks. You should not know which press will break the shot and it will be dead center.
    Last edited by Doc_Glock; 12-07-2020 at 09:07 PM.

  5. #35
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    out of here
    Wait, did you self diagnose and correct your issue without a live instructor but just with your powers of observation, Internet chatter and YouTube videos?!!

    You will go far with powers of observation and experimentation. That’s what makes this sport great.

    I love my Kadet kits BTW! I mocked one up to better simulate the weight of my competition gun for transition training and memory stage practice.

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  6. #36
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    I like ball and dummy, and do it almost every range session. I don't alternative live and dummy rounds - I just randomly load my magazine while staring into the distance and thinking deep thoughts. And I insert the mag into the pistol with my eyes closed, so I don't see the rounds at the top of the mag. That way I don't know when the dummy rounds are coming. I use 5 - 6 dummies per mag.

    Ernest Langdon's "Load One Shoot 2" drill (also called the "Poor Man's Ball and Dummy Drill") is good if you don't have dummy rounds, or picking up the dummy rounds is problematic (long grass etc.) However, it's predictable because the second trigger press will always yield a "click".

    Shooting heavier calibers is a good way to acquire a flinch, in my experience, so I suggest sticking with softer shooting calibers.

    Good luck.

  7. #37
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    Apr 2013
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    Louisiana
    I think the conversation about tension is a great one, and as long as we're showing various useful videos, I liked this one:



    The details offered were that the only really tensioned part of the grip was in wrists, and the exceprt with Ron Avery about "sticky" grip was also great. My hope in my shooting is to have a grip that is strong from structure more than muscular tension. Mike Seeklander's advice on grip, focusing on pushing the palms past one another, seems to help me in the tense wrists, relaxed hands and arms, strong grip that I'm working on achieving.

    I'm a big fan of ball and dummy, and of shooting rimfire. When I first got into pistol shooting, I had a consistent and hugely frustrating low left problem. Once I decided to only shoot randomly mixed ball and dummy, and to switch back and forth between rimfire and centerfire in shooting session, the low left went way.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

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