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Thread: Why aren't there better sub-compact DA/SA options?

  1. #151
    Site Supporter Elwin's Avatar
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    The .40 version belonging to a family member was probably the worst pistol shooting experience I’ve ever had. A springy, spungy, flexy DA trigger pull that never ends and recoil that may have been worse than the titanium snubbie with full power magnum loads. Granted that’s a .40 and not a 9mm, but damn it was awful. I may have unloaded and passed on finishing the one mag I was going to put through it, I don’t recall.

    ETA this is regarding Kel Tec, not Beretta.

  2. #152
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Put me in the "damn, that PF-9 is hella painful" camp. I dumped mine after my first range trip.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
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  3. #153
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    I would really consider the PF9 if I thought it would be reliable. My copy, years ago, was perfect with FMJ, but not with HP. Plus it was one of the few guns that I actually found painful to shoot.

    However I still have a, possibly irrational, desire for one.
    I do not have a desire for anything from KelTec. Their track record is too spotty. In this form factor, give me a G43 with a SCD any day of the week.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    If we’re including DAO guns, the KelTec PF9 and Ruger LCP should be mentioned.
    Is the LCP a true DAO with a trigger you can pull continually for dryfire? I only have experience with the LCP 2, which is something like an SAO, and not interesting to me for that reason.

    Despite my above gripes about my Kahr I cant imagine leaving it for a Kel Tec, based on my experience which includes a PF9. I also played with the SCCY (P11 clone) and it was just too chunky and cheap feeling for me to consider replacing my Kahr with.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by TicTacticalTimmy View Post
    Is the LCP a true DAO with a trigger you can pull continually for dryfire? I only have experience with the LCP 2, which is something like an SAO, and not interesting to me for that reason.

    Despite my above gripes about my Kahr I cant imagine leaving it for a Kel Tec, based on my experience which includes a PF9. I also played with the SCCY (P11 clone) and it was just too chunky and cheap feeling for me to consider replacing my Kahr with.

    The LCP Gen 1 does not have second strike capability.

  6. #156
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    Sig tried, with the P224...they were moderately successful with the P245 and P220 compact(s; 2 generations of them), then they tried the P224 in both 9 and 40. That one...not so successful. Sig doesn't make any of them now, though since the 220 compact wasn't a total failure, maybe they might bring that one back some day...

    It wasn't that they couldn't make the DA/SA part work; it was that for whatever reason, they couldn't make them reliable, IIRC. I don't know why/what the issues were specifically, but I've never heard of anyone putting one through a rigorous test and it succeeding. I've read of plenty of stories on sig talk and other forums of people sending 224s back for repair/replacement, and never being happy with how they run.

    They've done sporadic runs of P229s and P220s with the Compact 224/220 slides (usually called "Carry" models)...I don't know if they're more reliable due to the frame size, or what. I'm guessing they're not as reliable as the longer slide/barrel versions, but people want them anyway, so..

    FWIW my P220 compact has been %100 reliable with everything factory I've fed it; I'm probably around 1200 rounds through it or so by this point, most of them (north of 800) my reloads. A few handful of failure to fires that went off on the 2nd/3rd strike; undoubtedly stretched brass and primers not fully seated each time. Same thing from the same batch happened on a full size P220 and a USP 45, so...I'm sure it wasn't the gun. It's fed HST, Hydra-Shok, and of course ball, all of the 230 grain variety.

    The first gen P220 Compacts are easy to tell by their large beavertail...I've heard/read those were pretty unreliable for "reasons". The 2nd gen, which looked more like a standard 220 that someone put the photocopier on %65 before copying, seems to be much more reliable from what I've read...and for me, it's true.

    I've heard the 245 was a bit flippy...FWIW, my 220 compact shoots nicer than a Colt Combat Commander. I shot them side by side, and I seriously felt that the 220 compact flipped less and was more comfortable to run for longer round counts. A combination of less punishing to shoot and less weight to carry...two things that often don't happen at the same time.

  7. #157
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    My P245 is awesome. I’d say it’s probably the most “accurate” gun I own. I’ve heard/I gather that Sig P2xx .45s kinda have this “x factor” when it comes to accuracy; I’ve had a few P245s, and I’d say my experience corroborates that. I bought an older P220 recently, which I haven’t actually shot yet. It’ll be interesting to see if I feel the same way about the P220.

    I don’t shoot my P245 a ton... but even after a long hiatus, it always puts rounds right where I want them. And I honestly feel like it’s softer shooting than the Colt Commander (steel frame) I had for a while last year.

    Also can’t forget the P239 if you’re talking about (sub?)compact Sigs.
    Last edited by MattyD380; 12-09-2020 at 09:41 PM.

  8. #158
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
    My P245 is awesome. I’d say it’s probably the most “accurate” gun I own. I’ve heard/I gather that Sig P2xx .45s kinda have this “x factor” when it comes to accuracy; I’ve had a few P245s, and I’d say my experience corroborates that. I bought an older P220 recently, which I haven’t actually shot yet. It’ll be interesting to see if I feel the same way about the P220.

    I don’t shoot my P245 a ton... but even after a long hiatus, it always puts rounds right where I want them. And I honestly feel like it’s softer shooting than the Colt Commander (steel frame) I had for a while last year.

    Also can’t forget the P239 if you’re talking about (sub?)compact Sigs.
    I've got a P245 and a covey of P220s. I am a fan.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  9. #159
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    If we’re including DAO guns, the KelTec PF9 and Ruger LCP should be mentioned.
    Kel Tec, really?
    Ignore Alien Orders

  10. #160
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD View Post
    Kel Tec, really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I do not have a desire for anything from KelTec. Their track record is too spotty. In this form factor, give me a G43 with a SCD any day of the week.
    Since a bunch of DAO guns were being discussed, as well as some very unreliable and crappy guns, I thought we should mention KT. But maybe not...
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

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