Nike, Coca-Cola, others reportedly lobbying against Uighur Chinese labor bill

[RevolverRob]

To me this seems odd. We're OK with slave labor as long as you keep it isolated to one province and we don't import any goods from there? Not exactly the moral high ground.

But yes, I agree we should have sanctions in place preventing the importation of goods made from slave labor.

I get where you're coming from. But one step at a time, right? (I know we're in full agreement here, this is mostly rhetorical)

To my mind one of the biggest challenges we face in American society is a disconnect between production and consumption. Americans are GREAT consumers. But most Americans have never killed or grown their own food, nor made or seen made their own products. As a result to them "stuff" comes from a store (or a drug dealer).

The wokesters talk a big game about making people aware of the crimes against humans. Yet, we find them consuming substantial assets without understanding. And worse, they seem to be the immature children who haven't figured out change MUST be incremental and you don't get all the things you want RIGHT now.

Or as George Carlin once said, "LIFE DOESN'T CHANGE BECAUSE YOU POST A SIGN!" - Substitute "sign" for "tweet" and you've summed up what's wrong with America.

And like Carlin I sort of want to run these assholes off the road into a utility pole*.

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In the meantime - I'd love a list of companies who are opposing this labor bill. I haven't bought from Nike in years and mainly drink Dr. Pepper when I drink soda.

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*For those unfamiliar with this classic Carlin skit - Like most Carlin language is NSFW:

[TGS]

To me this seems odd. We're OK with slave labor as long as you keep it isolated to one province and we don't import any goods from there? Not exactly the moral high ground.

What part of this bill says that we're okay with slave labor?

It's pretty much the most we can do, short of Iran-level sanctions or invading them.

[Nephrology]

I'd argue that a vast, vast majority of the items we purchase from overseas (especially electronics and clothing/textiles) are produced in conditions that are probably not a massive step up from the (actual) slave labor conditions of the Uighur. Not to dismiss their plight or anything, but it's not a if it's all peaches and cream for the textile workers in Indonesia that made the T-shirt I'm wearing right now, either.

[blues]

...invading them.

Then we'd have to rebuild them...and we'd need the Chi...well, that's not gonna work.

[JAD]

I'd argue that a vast, vast majority of the items we purchase from overseas (especially electronics and clothing/textiles) are produced in conditions that are probably not a massive step up from the (actual) slave labor conditions of the Uighur. Not to dismiss their plight or anything, but it's not a if it's all peaches and cream for the textile workers in Indonesia that made the T-shirt I'm wearing right now, either.

Certainly everything we buy from China, which is most things, is made in a system that does not support a basic recognition of human rights.

The Uyghurs are special, and worth special focus, because by participating in religious persecution China is doubling down on being evil. This is eating the elephant one bite at a time.

[TGS]

Certainly everything we buy from China, which is most things, is made in a system that does not support a basic recognition of human rights.

The Uyghurs are special, and worth special focus, because by participating in religious persecution China is doubling down on being evil. This is eating the elephant one bite at a time.

That, and also that it's not just indentured servitude or slave labor we're talking about here.

In Indonesia your boss might hit you with a switch a few times before firing you or taking half your pay as punishment.

The Uyghers get tortured or killed if they don't put out.

[Borderland]

Then we’ll be financing them for 10 years.

Do you mean like the agricultural industry?

[RoyGBiv]

Certainly everything we buy from China, which is most things, is made in a system that does not support a basic recognition of human rights.

The Uyghurs are special, and worth special focus, because by participating in religious persecution China is doubling down on being evil. This is eating the elephant one bite at a time.

Hard to argue against this... Not gonna try.

I'd argue that a vast, vast majority of the items we purchase from overseas (especially electronics and clothing/textiles) are produced in conditions that are probably not a massive step up from the (actual) slave labor conditions of the Uighur. Not to dismiss their plight or anything, but it's not a if it's all peaches and cream for the textile workers in Indonesia that made the T-shirt I'm wearing right now, either.

I've been in the overseas sourcing business for >20 years. I'd counter that it's not appropriate to view this through a US/Western lens. 20+ years ago, China was literally rubble. Buildings along main streets in good sized cities, barely standing. Lots of people cooking in the front yard over a wood fire or coal. Over the years, things got rebuilt. From the main thoroughfares, rolling like a wave to the outskirts of the city. In 20 years China has gone from abject poverty to a thriving middle class. On my very first visit, we drove from the port near Zhuhai (ferry from HK) past a dead body covered with a palm frond. It was explained that the deceased was involved in a bicycle-truck accident and the body was waiting for the family to come retrieve it. From that starting point, human rights aside, the typical Chinese citizen I see nowadays has good shelter, safe food supply, good clothes, some luxuries, many have cars (although driving skills are lacking).

I've not been to Indonesia but did spend time in Malaysia, Thailand and other nearby places, where quality of life is much like China, IMO. I didn't get the impression that their governments were much more forgiving of transgressions (well, maybe Thailand).

There are lots of huge manufacturers, like Foxconn (Hon Hai) that employ tens of thousands of people, put them up in company dormitories where luxuries are sparse. Is this slave labor? No. Labor migration is a real thing there. Folks changing jobs for incremental (sometime big) pay increases. There is 100% freedom to change jobs, AFAIK. Labor costs are WAY up, especially now that infrastructure (roads, trains, airports) are better in Central and Western China. People that moved East for jobs and lived in sparse company dorms are moving back home because the jobs have reached them there. Wages in the East have risen to try and retain workers.

So... to wrap up this ramble.... Yes... Manufacturers will choose to locate plants where labor costs are low (not to ignore many other factors, but for arguments sake). Clothing manufacturing has evaporated from China to Vietnam and other places, because Chinese labor costs rose. Is this a bad thing? Poor people get better jobs, richer people get cheaper goods.

I'm on board with the negatives of human rights violations. But I'm inclined to separate the discussion on low cost labor. From what I've seen, job mobility and labor market cherry picking by manufacturers has helped a lot of people. I haven't seen any children in a factory since the very early days.

[TAZ]

The fact that the matter (of slavery / slave labor) is up for debate shows how little we have progressed as a species.

Leopards rarely change their spots. The human animal is basically an asshat. History is full of hypocritical look the other way. The BLM/reparations crowd buying up all sweatshop made Nike gear is just the tip of the current affairs iceberg.

Unless we get a dramatic event it’s SSDD.

[BehindBlueI's]

Exactly. Let's see Apple devices made in America, by unions.

I'm not a fan of Apple, but their party line on why they use FoxConn in Taiwan rings at least partly true to me. Labor cost estimates range from 1-5% of the total cost to manufacture, so per Apple the hourly wage of workers is not a primary decision point. (They suggest there are nations where they could cut costs over China pretty significantly if this were the case) . They argue that China/Taiwan has the logistics of sub-contractors, materials, port access for global shipping, semi-skilled and skilled workers that are lacking in both cheaper and more expensive labor markets. Unlike, say, textiles, there's a certain technological proficiency that's required to crank out the huge numbers of electronics that Apple needs that's tough to train a labor market to from scratch. You'll see t-shirts made in Sri Lanka, but not a laptop.

The death of manufacturing in the US caused a talent drain as well and the number of tool makers who can do what needs to be done to make the number of phones they churn out just doesn't exist in the US any longer. When so many companies went overseas it caused a domino affect were the logistics and talent pool shrunk dramatically. One could also suppose the "everyone goes to college or they are a loser" mentality over the last few generations also impacted it, but who can blame anyone for not going in to an industry that was obviously in it's death throes.

While I'm sure they don't cry themselves to sleep over the reduced labor costs, the notion it's not the primary driver makes sense.