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Thread: SRO false dot with a low sun angle

  1. #11
    Member SoCalDep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Letís just say it is a big enough SRO problem guys are taping over their front lens for early morning stages, and I have never heard of taping over another red dot at matches. Where it shows up is running and gunning in matches, where the positions and sun angles are changing.
    So why arenít they just running other dots?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
    So why arenít they just running other dots?
    That is a complicated question.

    First, a number of people have moved to the Romeo 3 Max for this reason.

    However, the SRO has a number of benefits. It is extremely reliable, it is widely available, it works with BUIS, the battery lasts a long time, and because it uses the RMR footprint, it is a plug and play solution for many pistols set up for the RMR. I have never broken a SRO, and my experience has been that is unusual compared to other optics.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #13
    Member SoCalDep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    That is a complicated question.

    First, a number of people have moved to the Romeo 3 Max for this reason.

    However, the SRO has a number of benefits. It is extremely reliable, it is widely available, it works with BUIS, the battery lasts a long time, and because it uses the RMR footprint, it is a plug and play solution for many pistols set up for the RMR. I have never broken a SRO, and my experience has been that is unusual compared to other optics.
    My next question is whether the Romeo 3 Max actually solves the problem. If they have figured out a way to make reflected red wavelength light not reflect off the partially silvered dielectric dichroic coating that no other optic manufacturer has been able to do then we have a winner and a bunch of manufacturers need to catch up big time! I can see the potential with objective coatings but Iím pretty skeptical about the whole thing based on my experience with a bunch of other optics.

    I may have to pick up a Romeo 3 Max to see how it compares because from a semi-scientific standpoint (Iím too dumb to be actually scientific) the presence of phantom dots has to do with optic coatings period and if theyíve solved the problem then thatís a big deal. If itís a matter of Glocks are popular so their problems are magnifiedĒ and SROs are popular so....

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
    My next question is whether the Romeo 3 Max actually solves the problem. If they have figured out a way to make reflected red wavelength light not reflect off the partially silvered dielectric dichroic coating that no other optic manufacturer has been able to do then we have a winner and a bunch of manufacturers need to catch up big time! I can see the potential with objective coatings but Iím pretty skeptical about the whole thing based on my experience with a bunch of other optics.

    I may have to pick up a Romeo 3 Max to see how it compares because from a semi-scientific standpoint (Iím too dumb to be actually scientific) the presence of phantom dots has to do with optic coatings period and if theyíve solved the problem then thatís a big deal. If itís a matter of Glocks are popular so their problems are magnifiedĒ and SROs are popular so....
    The optic was developed with input by Max Michel as a full on competition sight. He reported early on, how well it worked in low sun angles, like commonly experienced at the Frostproof (FL) range. My wife and a good friend have each used a Romeo 3 Max (R3Max) for over a year now, and have never encountered a false dot. It is supposed to have a special coating, but I am not sure why it doesnít get splatter or false dots. I just bought an RTS2 adapter from C-More (the RTS2 and R3Max share the same footprint) so I can run the R3Max on a CORE.

    It has some negatives for use as a carry/duty sight, like it doesnít take SRO height BUIS, the footprint is big, and it seems less durable than the SRO. It is an awesome USPSA optic.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
    So why arenít they just running other dots?
    Because the SRO has the best features and reliability of any of the competition sized optics taping over the optic isnít a big deal - keep a piece of tape on your holster then use if necessary - I shot 3 stages at nationals with my optic taped on my AM relay on the east bays.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by THeHumbleMarksman View Post
    Because the SRO has the best features and reliability of any of the competition sized optics taping over the optic isnít a big deal - keep a piece of tape on your holster then use if necessary - I shot 3 stages at nationals with my optic taped on my AM relay on the east bays.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Two things. First, I have read on Enos that if you start the match with your lens taped over, you have to finish the match that way to comply with USPSA rules. Second, some peopleís eyes have issues with an occluded optic. Sometimes it seems to work for me and sometimes it causes my shots to deflect left. Possibly it is because of a torn retina I suffered five years ago, which messed with my eye dominance, as in certain lighting conditions my left eye will try to take over dominance from my normal right eye. There is one eye test that I struggle with as a result. Of course taping the lens is a competition fix and not practical for duty/EDC.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Two things. First, I have read on Enos that if you start the match with your lens taped over, you have to finish the match that way to comply with USPSA rules. Second, some peopleís eyes have issues with an occluded optic. Sometimes it seems to work for me and sometimes it causes my shots to deflect left. Possibly it is because of a torn retina I suffered five years ago, which messed with my eye dominance, as in certain lighting conditions my left eye will try to take over dominance from my normal right eye. There is one eye test that I struggle with as a result. Of course taping the lens is a competition fix and not practical for duty/EDC.
    Thatís the first I have heard of that - it looks like 5.1.8 is what is suggesting that- I am going to email DNROI for clarification. A buddy emailed him on whether it was legal to do period but the way it was presented didnít spark comment on a mid match change


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #18
    Here are some pictures I took last winter of different optics with the same sun angle.

    RMR ó you can see splatter.

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    Acro:

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    SRO:

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    RMS Shield:

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    C-More RTS2:

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    Romeo 3 Max (reportedly made in same factory as RTS2):

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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    A member here had the false dot issue, also with a SRO, during a Gunsite pistol class in October. Interestingly, it was only in the afternoon on a west facing range when the sun was still well elevated to his left-front.

    I haven't had headlights, legit flashlights pointing right into my Acro or RMR so I can't opine.
    Erickís mentioning an issue I had with the SRO during a Gunsite 499.

    It isnít an issue for me with a correct presentation, but when working as fast as possible during certain drills, it certainly was occasionally an issue. Initially, I solved this with a very brief confirmation with the BUIS/slide alignment, and as I continued to work on what Erick taught me, it became a non issue.

    What I have found is that:

    1. The correct presentation completely solves this issue for me. Erick spent a lot of time helping me develop a proper presentation with the dot, I have reinforced this with daily dry fire training, and itís quite reliable for me now. I have even found that I can even get reliable hits to COM with eyes closed out to 7 yards+ after developing the presentation Erick taught me, with my grip-customized VP9 and P30 pistols- a technique which is certainly impractical, but is a good confidence builder (and a hell of a party trick).

    2. Taping over the front may or may not help this specific situation with the SRO, because the reflection that creates the false dot comes from the flat emitter window, regardless of tape over the front lens. In cases where the dot is caused by the sun coming directly into the lens, as on the Frostproof targets described by GJM, tape will no doubt help (presuming correct eyesight and no strabismus.)

    I also carry an RMR, which is also susceptible to this in similar conditions, but with the RMR, the false dots are not as good of a match with the real dot, so less of an issue.

  10. #20
    Standing on flat ground is a different scenario than running, bending and leaning, all the while trying to have the gun up and aimed so you can fire as soon as you enter a position.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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