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Thread: The Accumulated Wisdom of the late Pat Rogers

  1. #1
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    Jun 2014

    The Accumulated Wisdom of the late Pat Rogers

    Okay so it’s early and I am still working on getting my caffeine/blood ratio corrected, so this may be off base, but what the hell...

    I was thinking about my small collection of Jeff Cooper’s writings (which I enjoy for their style if not moreso than content) and was also thinking about how to get a couple of folks who are new to AR’s/gunfighting up to speed. It occurred to me that if there was come compilation of Pat Roger’s instructional material available, that would be a pretty good start for getting them going in the right direction. Too, saving something like that for posterity would be pretty great as well. Problem is, the best I can tell, the late great Pat’s writings were largely forum postings (on LF?), magazine articles, and some videos.

    Is there someone who is accessible to “us” who would have the ability to source Pat’s work? I wonder how hard it would be to assimilate all of that into some sort of package. Seems like a fitting tribute to the man. (Thinking in terms of something published with the permission, and for the benefit, of his estate; not just ripping off his life’s work for distribution.) Seems to me this would have to start with someone who is connected to his family and has an understanding of what would be valuable for publication.

  2. #2
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    Feb 2012
    Lexington, SC
    I don't know about books, but Panteo has a few of their Make Ready Videos featuring Pat as best I recall.

  3. #3
    Is SWAT Magazine still around? That seemed to be where most of Pat’s later writing was published. It’s more complicated than it seems, I’m sure, but those folks would likely be best positioned to understand the copyrights and potentially to publish a Book of Pat collection.

  4. #4
    HAS ELECTROLYTES LittleLebowski's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    I hope this happens. I miss that man.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    Some years ago, John Farnam published an anthology of his periodic quips email, "quips, quotes, and lessons learned."

    I'd like to see such a work from several other people, esp Pat.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  6. #6
    Mr. Shovel Lover Hambo's Avatar
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    Behind the Photonic Curtain
    Quote Originally Posted by Tensaw View Post
    Is there someone who is accessible to “us” who would have the ability to source Pat’s work?
    @Dagga Boy @Tamara
    John Wick didn't kill all those people because they broke his toaster.-MickAK

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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    I hope this happens. I miss that man.
    Me too. He was involved as I was forming my instructional capabilities. I feel like a name dropper every time I credit him, but I hung on his every word....SWAT Magazine, Lightfighter, 10-8 Forums, even back to Tactical Forums with a few members here I still respect. Then one of my best friends went to Gunsite for a 250 class put on by him and Chris Dwiggins, and didn't own a cell phone nor email address, so I was the POC. And a local class.

    I still have a bunch of web pages bookmarked and a ton of old SWAT mags that I would review more often, but for the wear.


  8. #8
    Member Colt191145lover's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Gods country
    I pray this happens!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gater View Post
    Is SWAT Magazine still around? That seemed to be where most of Pat’s later writing was published. It’s more complicated than it seems, I’m sure, but those folks would likely be best positioned to understand the copyrights and potentially to publish a Book of Pat collection.
    Sadly, SWAT Magazine closed its doors a few years ago. So I don't see them putting anything out. I am not sure when Pat started to write for them or if all of his articles are located in electronic form on any single computer.

    Pat also had a lot of online postings on forums. While they certainly were not as long or as comprehensive as his articles, they were just as memorable and contained a lot of his wisdom in a more diffuse form. His posts contained numerous bits and pieces of diverse knowledge that were not covered in his articles.

    Some time ago on a forum that is no longer here, someone accumulated a small number of his quotes and posted them. I added a few to them.

    Gathered at a Carbine Operator's Course conducted by EAG Tactical Training at the Dane County LE Training Center 13-14-15 May 2007

    "How long does a gunfight last? The rest of your life . . ."

    Question: “how much ammunition do you need in a gunfight.
    Answer: “All of it.

    “Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.”

    “Training is best conducted when the shooter and his gear are in synch. If any portion of that train rolls off the tracks, the overall quality of training- for all hands suffers.”

    "While shooting is relatively easy to teach, fighting isn’t. This is especially true for those who have never experienced an emergency, been in a fist fight and whose exposure to a fight is theoretical.”

    "With the current state of pussyness rampant in this country, most have never actually been in a fist fight. This also includes most cops."

    "Mindset issues have always been difficult, because only a few are blessed (blessed?) with that mean gene that permits them to fight other bipeds to the death without remorse. Not many can embrace the hate efficiently."

    “Theory has a nasty habit of falling by the wayside when the enemy has a vote...”

    “At close range, the ability to get a working gun in your hand is a priority. Unfortunately, a great many have difficulty in understanding this...”

    "Get a working gun in your hand and then continue to shoot smelly bearded men wearing man dresses in the face.

    "If you people could just FOLLOW DIRECTIONS ONE TIME my heart would soar like an eagle . . ."

    "Don't be in a hurry to do it wrong."

    “There are two ways to do most anything, right... and again.”

    "Repetition is the mother of skill."

    "If you're a cop, there are 5 major food groups: Eat in. Take out. Frozen. Pizza. Beer."

    "Well, that IS difficult, but NOT impossible."

    "Make it work and drive on."

    "I like the idea of drugs. It kills a lot of useless people. Just not soon enough."

    "I dunno'...seems simple to me."

    "Courage is endurance, for one moment more..."

    "The rapidity at which violence occurs stuns most."

    "These guns don't have to be spotlessly clean. They need to be REALISTICALLY clean"

    "Don't fall in love with your magazines. They're expendable items. If it doesn't work, get rid of it and buy another."

    "In my career, between the NYPD and the Marine Corps, I had the opportunity to attend lots of training classes. Many of those classes dealt with firearms or tactics. A lot of the training I participated in was real good. However, I did discover that after you go to about 12 or 14 shooting classes, you find that you don't learn much new material from any one class, because your base of knowledge is already established."

    "After you shoot guns enough, it starts to get boring. The point at which boredom sets in varies with the individual . . . "

    “Remember that the BG has a vote in all of this.
    The BG will generally decide when the fight starts, and determines when the fight stops (that is, when he is incapacitated or gives up).”

    “Fast misses are just as ineffective as the slow shot that you didn't get off.”

    "In a class, nobody works harder than me, and nobody has more fun than me. I believe in training hard and having a good time. HOWEVER I am a safety-Nazi in class. We have to be. We have no tolerance for careless behavior with firearms. I'm retired from both the Marine Corps and the NYPD, and in all those years of service I've only been actually shot once, and that was by a student . . ."

    "When I was in Viet Nam at the war, I had the opportunity to be in an awkward situation a bunch of times, where we were advancing faster than the NVA could retreat, or we were retreating slower than they were advancing. Under such circumstances, we got a lot of shooting in. Of course, I was in the Marine Corps and in the Corps we really don't "retreat" -- we attack in another direction."

    "As a short little Irishman, I have one advantage over you big tall guys. I can shoot on the move better than you, because my stride is shorter, and I don't bounce. I'm a more stable shooting platform"

    "When do cops usually use rifles? Up close. When do soldiers or Marines in urban combat use rifles? Up close, across the room, or across the street. In that application, the carbine is almost used like a big and more powerful pistol. Under these circumstances, your most typical distance of engagement is probably going to be from point blank range out to about 30 yards."

    "If you analyze the dynamics of a gunfight, whether it's the military or in law enforcement, the details are usually quite similar. The action is fast and furious for a short time. The survivors will retreat to cover and reload. The action may or may not continue on from there. In this circumstance, your first reload in the fight may be very important to your continued survival . . ."

    "Gunfights within the confines of structures are violent and exciting affairs. The ability to deliver rapid, accurate shots into a threat will determine whether you will have a war story or a Memorial Softball Field named after you."

    "If you steal material from one guy, that's called "plagiarism". If you steal it from a bunch of guys, it's called "research". I'm a researcher. I've never invented anything in my life, and I've never named anything after myself."

    "Smart people often "over-drive their headlights". Because they have developed expertise in one area, they make the mistake of presuming they have expertise in other areas, when they really don't. Wisdom is knowing what you know, and knowing what you DON'T know."

    "In training, there are primary skills and secondary skills. You need to know the difference, and you need to prioritize your training efforts to focus on the primary skills. None of us will probably ever have all the time or the money or the equipment or the ammo that we want, so you have to make some decisions about which skills you need to devote valuable training time and resources on."

    "The first rule of training is to survive the experience. When conducting training, you need to be safe in your procedures. You need to stay hydrated. You can't get over-heated, you can't freeze, and you can't get hypothermiated. If you have pre-existing injuries to your back or your knees or whatever, don't get hurt in training. Participate in those exercises you can do safely and without injury and press on."

    "Here's my best advice. Buy a big goofy happy friendly dog. In the morning, walk your dog around the neighborhood and let all the kids play with your dog. That way, everybody in town will think that you're a hell of a nice guy, even if you aren't."

    "If you see Osama bin Laden walking down the street in Washington, DC, and you draw your pistol and kill him and his two bodyguards, and then you shoot yourself reholstering, you're still an assclown."

    "No shit. For years we were told that a *head* shot was the answer to all issues.

    Talking with Jeff Cooper about an incident where the Manhattan South Duty Captain who ended a Hostage job by putting six rounds of 158gr SWCL into the grape of the mutt, who had poured a flammable substance onto the head of the hostage and was attempting to light it.

    Cooper was aghast, and said "Why six? One was all that was necessary".

    People are a lot more resilient than many people think.
    His frame of reference was clearly different than ours..."


    Pat sends

  10. #10
    I would buy a book if someone publishes it. I never took a class from him but started reading her work in the old Tactical Shooter magazine that the Precision Shooting people put out way back.

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