New York State Bans High Capacity Thanksgiving Dinners

[YVK]

Man Im with you. My wife is a telemetry nurse. I get both sides of it. I took care of a parent, by myself and raising two kids, with in home health care assisting only when I had to work for over a year because of alzheimers. I get that some family members hit the hospital and are stupid to deal with. Im not one of those people.

I am a full believer in having family present as much as possible. Many, many years ago, in my other professional life, I worked in a system that didn't allow visitors. Pretty much none on the floors, but especially in critical care units where I started my career. There were months when our mortality was 20% and I was the last human being those people saw or spoke to, on my every shift. I still get triggered when I remember those times.
But right now, with state numbers 10-20 times higher than in spring and test positivity rate of 25%, we can't risk our staff picking up rona from visitors.
Best of luck to your wife, my tele nurses are really stressed now as tele beds get appropriated for icu patients who don't need vents. Our intensivists have coined a new term, a pretensive care unit. ICU patients cared for by ICU docs on whatever unit they can put them on.

[TheNewbie]

Imagine a 20'x20' box that is filled with bowling pins, and over a given period of time you MUST yeet that bowling ball through the box (you have to hit the pharmacy, you have to go to work, you have to go grocery shopping etc). However, the goal is to hit as few pins as possible because every time you hit a bowling pin the chance of something bad happens increases...we know that you can't completely eliminate hitting any pins at all, but the goal is to hit as few as possible and still get by. So you think, "Hmm, do I really need to bowl today? Ok, well I do. Shit. Okay, let's bowl when there tends to be less pins".

And then out of left field, a bunch of people yelling about "muh rightz! Tyranny! I'm not at risk so FUCK YOU, you can't tell me what to do, cash'me ousside howbowdat!" come out of left field and fill up your box with extra bowling pins for what is really no good reason, other than they have proclaimed that this is their god given right. They're not actually doing anything useful....they don't have a real reason to be in that box other than prove to everyone how badass they are that they can fill up your box and there's nothing you can do about it. After your box, they take their bowling pins plus an extra pin or two that they picked up from your box and go over to another box where someone else has to bowl. So, you know they've probably already been to multiple boxes that week, and man.....they're really stackin' them pins in there. "Well, fuck" you exclaim under your breath.

And then, on top of that, instead of using mini bowling pins that you have a lower chance of hitting (instead of wearing a mask, that is), they purposely use nice, big fat hefty jumbo bowling pins from a pool playset that happen to bounce around a lot when they get hit...

Moral of the story: it's not about you.

_______________________________________________


So, I'm not sure how in November this still isn't understood. I'm not sure why I feel the need to explain this either, because by November of 2020 there's no way this attitude persists for any reason other than willful ignorance.

Everyone is going to have to go "out" at some point and risk exposure. That's obviously part of life.....some, more than others....we get that. As an example, I'm still flying on airplanes because I have to for work in the cases that the work is deemed mission critical. I'm still going out into public in the hardest hit province of a poor south Asian country where I'm basically fucked if I get covid due to lack of healthcare infrastructure, because there's still a mission that the USG must accomplish and I have to ensure the safety and security of those personnel. Similarly, every time we go out to execute our mission the chances of the entire installation getting the kabash comes into play, as one of us could spread it to the other staff. So, life goes on, we do what we can, yada yada.

However, when you decide that the virus doesn't apply to you, you are still making it more risky for others as even average risk and higher risk people will need to go out into riskier places with some frequency. What wouldn't be reasonable is if I decided "Nah, fuck it, I'm a magic fucking unicorn and I know that I'm lower risk and if I get the virus, fuck it, it won't hurt me anyway because I'm superman", and I use that reasoning as a justification to go expose myself unnecessarily by going out into public or flying more than actually needed (need vs want distinction here). By doing that, I'd only be proving that I'm an asshole because I can still catch the virus and give it to other people that I interact with, regardless of the fact that I've self-declared that I'm not at risk of getting the virus and I'll be fine even if I do.....because superpowers, or some shit.

You are right, it's not about you or me. It's about something much bigger.


Life is full of risk, I doubt any of us here have special protection or super powers. While you attempt to discredit people with "muh ritz!", you fail to realize that other people may have scientific, rational, and compassionate basis for their beliefs. Even if they differ with yours. Same goes for me.


I don't think you want to harm society, but people like you, who make decisions base on fear of the virus vs decisions based on the consequences of the lockdown, do cause harm. That is my opinion, you clearly differ. While liberty is a serious issue that should not be laughed at, it's more than just liberty. It's social health, economic health (which goes beyond being able to buy toys), other forms of medical health.



My wife spent years as a doctor working in a crappy socialized medical system. My best friend's dad is a doctor. They think different than you do. It's possible they could be wrong, they are not gods. It's also possible that you and those you listen to could be wrong. Remember, the attempt to suppress doctors was one sided.


You went to Asia, I went to Mexico and visited one of the poorest areas in DF. Now maybe I shouldn't have because we then went to Chalco and I ate fresh cheese and got freshly sick.

[TGS]

You are right, it's not about you or me. It's about something much bigger.


Life is full of risk, I doubt any of us here have special protection or super powers. While you attempt to discredit people with "muh ritz!", you fail to realize that other people may have scientific, rational, and compassionate basis for their beliefs. Even if they differ with yours. Same goes for me.


I don't think you want to harm society, but people like you, who make decisions base on fear of the virus vs decisions based on the consequences of the lockdown, do cause harm. That is my opinion, you clearly differ. While liberty is a serious issue that should not be laughed at, it's more than just liberty. It's social health, economic health (which goes beyond being able to buy toys), other forms of medical health.



My wife spent years as a doctor working in a crappy socialized medical system. My best friend's dad is a doctor. They think different than you do. It's possible they could be wrong, they are not gods. It's also possible that you and those you listen to could be wrong. Remember, the attempt to suppress doctors was one sided.


You went to Asia, I went to Mexico and visited one of the poorest areas in DF. Now maybe I shouldn't have because we then went to Chalco and I ate fresh cheese and got freshly sick.

That all sounds reasonable, but I'm not seeing that stuff clearly laid out in a rational manner based on evidence from the medical community...rather, rogue doctors who made broad statements based on no evidence which amounted to gross negligence and had their ability to practice pulled by the state. That's not suppression. This idea that some monolithic entity is suppressing doctors is ridiculous conspiracy theory, so you're kind of losing my respect for your POV off the bat.

Limiting gatherings on both total size and to family "pods", handwashing and surface decon, maintaining 6-10 feet of distance/partial openings, the wearing of masks and other PPE, contact tracing, hierarchal isolation procedures based on exposure estimated by contact time/intimacy/PPE, etc are actions that the medical community came up with, practice in their daily routine, and are scientifically supported. It's laughable that this is more harmful than letting the virus run rampant, or as opposed to whatever it is you're in favor of that you dance around and won't actually come out and state what should be done instead.

There's no evidence to say that letting the virus run rampant and kill untold scores of people would result in less harm to public health and the economy than implementing isolation procedures.

[TheNewbie]

That all sounds reasonable, but I'm not seeing that stuff clearly laid out in a rational manner based on evidence from the medical community...rather, rogue doctors who made broad statements based on no evidence which amounted to gross negligence and had their ability to practice pulled by the state. That's not suppression. This idea that some monolithic entity is suppressing doctors is ridiculous conspiracy theory, so you're kind of losing my respect for your POV off the bat.

Limiting gatherings on both total size and to family "pods", handwashing and surface decon, maintaining 6-10 feet of distance/partial openings, the wearing of masks and other PPE, contact tracing, hierarchal isolation procedures based on exposure estimated by contact time/intimacy/PPE, etc are actions that the medical community came up with, practice in their daily routine, and are scientifically supported. It's laughable that this is more harmful than letting the virus run rampant, or as opposed to whatever it is you're in favor of that you dance around and won't actually come out and state what should be done instead.

There's no evidence to say that letting the virus run rampant and kill untold scores of people would result in less harm to public health and the economy than implementing isolation procedures.

“Rogue” doctors does not mean wrong doctors. The removal of these doctors from FB and YouTube is outright suppression. It should concern everyone, even if you disagree with them. Thousands upon thousands of doctors are rogue by your standards.


What do I think should be done? Society opened up, people allowed to do as they please for the most part, sick and vulnerable protected, and effective medication made widely available.


The virus should not be allowed to run rampart, but neither should fear.

[Ed L]

I also don't buy into the false equivalencies offered in this thread, such as this being the same appeal as "but if gun control saved just one child!". It's apples and oranges. My guns, and my self, nor the aggregate American gun owner, are responsible for a pandemic that has killed 250,000 Americans YTD where someone is simply asking you to prevent the spread of the virus so that our hospital systems don't get overloaded.

I agree with your point, but the anti-gun argument of trying to "treat firearms as a public health crisis" has a lot of people worried.

Still, I have spent tens of thousands of man-hours around people with guns without being shot (if you count every hour that I spent around an individual with a gun as a man-hour). But at my age and with my health vulnerabilities I would probably be toast if I spent a very short time around someone with Covid if I didn't have PPE on (and I am not keen to try it with PPE). Covid has no practical use (other than a biologic weapon), and is not protected by the constitution.

[Zincwarrior]

US passes 2,000 deaths for first time since May.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...time-since-may

[UNK]

I am a full believer in having family present as much as possible. Many, many years ago, in my other professional life, I worked in a system that didn't allow visitors. Pretty much none on the floors, but especially in critical care units where I started my career. There were months when our mortality was 20% and I was the last human being those people saw or spoke to, on my every shift. I still get triggered when I remember those times.
But right now, with state numbers 10-20 times higher than in spring and test positivity rate of 25%, we can't risk our staff picking up rona from visitors.
Best of luck to your wife, my tele nurses are really stressed now as tele beds get appropriated for icu patients who don't need vents. Our intensivists have coined a new term, a pretensive care unit. ICU patients cared for by ICU docs on whatever unit they can put them on.

I discussed the same thing with my wife. She sternly informed me that would not be tolerated. Nurses 🙄😍
I have learned most people cant actually relate accurately to something devastating unless they actually pass through it so I wont pretend to understand your situation, merely to offer my condolences, wish you good health and safe passage.

[UNK]

US passes 2,000 deaths for first time since May.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...time-since-may

It would help if everybody had discussions with the complete info posted.
I understand its easier to just post something and say there you are.

People die every year from flu in spite of the flu shot being widely available. Some years quite a few more than others. The flu shot does not always inoculate accurately against the flu thats prevalent that year.
Secondly the CDC has given great leeway in how covid is reported. I know from a very reliable source of a gunshot victim locally being reported as covid death. I doubt that is an isolated event. Since CDC has not compiled the numbers except as an estimate of flu deaths for the last two years I cant help but wonder how we have such exact numbers now on a daily basis.
So how did we get to the point we are so unprepared for such an event when its been predicted to happen for years.
For the people who point to DJT as the problem I dont see how anyone can be so disingenuous. I recall a press conference whe Fauci said Trump had carried out every recommendation that had been put forth. Didnt he in advance of science demand a shutdown of International travel? And was condemmed as A racist for that act?
Wake up the press is manipulating you either right or left and has people at each others throats.
Please note im not advocating for muh rights or downplaying the significance of the event. Just expressing some concerns about how its being reported. Its going to be years before this can be accurately analyzed and conclusions drawn.
And before I get the demands to prove my points try doing some research.

[Zincwarrior]

A very interesting viewpoint.

[HeavyDuty]

...Secondly the CDC has given great leeway in how covid is reported. I know from a very reliable source of a gunshot victim locally being reported as covid death. I doubt that is an isolated event. Since CDC has not compiled the numbers except as an estimate of flu deaths for the last two years I cant help but wonder how we have such exact numbers now on a daily basis...

Every time I hear this argument I grit my teeth because they are usually discounting or ignoring comorbidities.

My late wife was ill, but very stable with numerous well managed serious medical issues including ESRD and a immunodeficiency. She contracted influenza from a family member who attended a baby shower despite being sick, developed pneumonia and died.

If she wasn’t immunodeficient or ESRD, would she have died from the flu?

Complications arising from pneumonia was the proximate cause of her death, just like complications arising from COViD are the proximate cause of death for the vast majority of people who have been tallied as being COViD victims.