I am wondering if JM and Dark Star can make Enigma specific designs with fixed retention, a clean design devoid of stuff unnecessary for use with the Enigma and a higher ride height to give knuckle clearance.
Last night I put a Raven E on a just arrived Enigma. I couldn’t find the wing and it seemed to work fine without the wing, at least on my body style.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Easily fixed with a strip of 100-mph tape, moleskin, fuzzy Velcro or anything similar. The Tegris composite does not respond well to sanding or other mechanical smoothing methods.Originally Posted by JCS
I very carefully fixed mine with a plasma lighter, but I have a lot of experience working with Tegris, and you can quickly ruin the piece if you’re ham-handed about it.
Last edited by Archer1440; 02-17-2021 at 12:23 PM.
I don't speak for Tom nor Tony; but re: JM Custom, this was a pretty cool eye-brow raiser when I first read it - https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1182629
As relates to the knuckle\plate interactions: one of the anchoring geometries behind its shape and size is full and flush overlap to the wings expected to underlay the plate. The Modwing and Dark Wing particularly influenced things, being two really strong options within the space. The Enigma plate placement is thus beholden to the manner of their mounting on a given holster, and is no better and no worse off than they are except as far as clearance goes - except in extending out laterally, and in presenting a narrower cross-section to incidental impacts (as opposed to the blunt cross-section atop a Dark Wing, for instance).
This is in no way to dismiss the concern - but rather, to explain how we got here, and the influences involved in how we approach the matter.
(Made by Jon and Sarah.)
Jules
Runcible Works
Hey bud, writing somewhat in general reply, but your post caught my eye and has kinda been flipping about in my head ever since;
There's some better ambi stuff out there, and some less-good ambi stuff; this, sometimes within the same portfolio. All ambi designs involve a certain amount of compromise for the user that only uses them with one orientation; but I think that with good design the compromise is more in the favor of the user\use than not.
FWIW, I will express a bias towards the Pro and the Eidolon - I like both designs as examples of ambi designs within the holsterspace; though, the astute observer will note that they approach the problem through different means. There are also some non-ambi designs out there that really embrace how much you can optimize a design for a specific handedness - Tom's detailing around rear sights in his non-RDS AIWBs is just really well executed and nuanced.
I don't make a lot under the house-brand, and it'll be a bit longer before there's anything resembling open sales; but everything that I make going forward will most likely be ambi. Nothing that I make is overwhelmingly inexpensive, and I want to be respectful of any customer's investment in me. Customers may find them running pistols with a different hand for any number of reasons: retraining to match their dominant eye as used to be common at my old workplace's initial training program (if less so when I left), loss of the (previously) dominant eye, and injury to the original shooting hand. Customers also may loan or sell the rig to someone of different handedness. For what I charge, it's a hard sell for them to purchase a separate rig, simultaneous to the other bills that usually go with such a circumstance. Further, with the approximately 85:15 split, right-handed:left-handed; it adds complexity and cost to the workup to debuting a product: ambi designs allow me to guaruntee left-handed coverage out of the gate.
For sheaths and variable-payload pouches, users may change their left\right orientation based off of their loadout for a given day, or in response to something being added to that. Flashlights may be carried on either side of the beltline based on what they have to coexist with. Knives may be carried strong-side in the absence of a gun, or off-side in the presence of a holster. Ambi sheaths and pouches allow the user to purchase either, and reduce their future expenses in the event that their context changes.
Designing for ambi excludes some options out of the gate, for better or worse - for example, push dagger sheaths with an integrally molded "muzzle" pad or similarly molded-in claw feature. For the greater context of things, however; I believe that approaching them as ambi equipment still provides more benefit to the user, than the alternative.
PHLster, btw, will have more non-Pro holster options forthcoming that are Enigma-optimized.
Jules
Runcible Works
Thought I would post this here for folks. I had a bit of a snafu with not receiving emails through their automated system when I placed my order last night. I contacted them via email this morning and within a very short amount of time everything had been rectified and I had a tracking number in hand and regained access to my account on their website. I couldn’t ask for better service than that.
im strong, i can run faster than train
I definitely don't mean to imply that I don't like the Phlster Pro. I do and have more than one that I'll continue using, but the I think the ambi features keep a "very good' design from being an "excellent" design. Specifically, the muzzle wedge on being on both sides creates additional unneeded bulk on the non-body side of the holster, and the blocking for the belt attachment hardware on the body-side of the holster makes the holster thicker at the belt line and reduces the impact of the muzzle wedge since that thickness is at the fulcrum point.
Injury to an eye or hand are valid, but hopefully unlikely scenarios. I've seen people looking to buy used holsters on this site for those very reasons. That said, I'd still prefer to have a holster optimized for its intended use and to purchase a second if a scenario dictates that I need something different. I know everyone's budget is different, but in the event something happened and I did need a left handed holster I think the extra $100 to purchase a left handed model would be the least of my concerns at that point.
Selling/buying/borrowing used holsters are concerns, but are pretty far down on my priority list when making a purchasing decision of something in the $100 price range.
There is absolutely an advantage to the manufacturer and retailers to not having to design, make, stock, and ship separate items. I would imagine that left handed people would see this as an advantage on the purchasing side as well.
I think which option provides more benefit will depend on the specific user and what they value most. In the context of the Enigma specifically, concealment is my primary concern so I'd value something that provides that by minimizing bulk and optimizing for right handed carry higher than something that doesn't do that quite as well in favor of a scenario I'm very unlikely to ever need.
I gotcha buddy, and I don't disagree with any of your points. I can only speak for myself, as both a maker and a user; and I absolutely follow with the points you've made as a user and buyer.
I do think that you'll really enjoy PHLster's upcoming Skeleton revisions, which I think will answer the mail for both yourself and others posting here.
Jules
Runcible Works
I still haven't had a chance to mess with it, but I've come across several now that are using an Apollo.
The holes for wings can be dropped a smidge, raising things just enough. I've also got spacers in the works for packs that allow for fixed retention in adjustable retention holsters. They will work for sure in mine, thinner spacers, and I'll have thicker spacers for those that run closer to the de facto standard thickness spacers.
I am wondering if JM and Dark Star can make Enigma specific designs with fixed retention, a clean design devoid of stuff unnecessary for use with the Enigma and a higher ride height to give knuckle clearance.
Last night I put a Raven E on a just arrived Enigma. I couldn’t find the wing and it seemed to work fine without the wing, at least on my body style.
See above. We probably won't be making an "enigma specific" design anything, but will rather just maintain the same shells and shell approaches moving forward. There's little drawback on having unused attachment holes, but there is merit in lower wing holes, which can be done easily. That and fixed retention spacers will be the path we take, and the fixed retention stuff is a happy accident that timed out well. We've been working on fixed retention with adjustment for the snubby holsters to cover the decades of S&W revolver variances, as well as preferences in feel. The same efforts work well in life extension of auto shells as without the flex from the adjustable retention spacers, there's no fatigue and probably no cracks. We unfortunately haven't built any kind of rig to test with high cycles.
All of this is something we could handle in lower volume now upon request for members.
Last edited by orionz06; 02-17-2021 at 11:18 PM.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
I got my papoose in the mail today, and my initial impression is that it greatly increases the comfort of the Enigma. I have long skinny fingers so I haven't had issues hitting my knuckles on the top of the Enigma, but the papoose does cover that area with soft material so it may be helpful for those of you with that issue.
I'd also like to mention that I received exceptional customer service from John. The first papoose that he sent me apparently got lost in the mail, and after I sent him a PM he got another one (with a slightly updated design) sent my way the next day along with the tracking number and photos.
I'll be testing it out more extensively, and plan on using it at the HiTS class next month so can provide more feedback after that, but if you think you may need to enhance the comfort of the Enigma at all I'd suggest ordering one.
back in stock...
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