Handheld and WML usage

[cmbarny2]

Qualifications are I'm a cop that trains on my own time and dime because my department barely does it.

Couple thoughts, if it's serious enough my gun is out I'm using my WML. If my gun isn't out then it is HHL. You run into a problem when the situation is switching from one to the other and how you handle the darkness potential in between. Really this comes down to a training issue but its totally situation dependent. Some situations you have the time to make a thought out switch of drawing the gun while maintaining the HHL light activation, activating the WML, and pocketing the HHL. Other situations you might have to roll with it turning into the Haries Technique, which I personally hate all the HHL/Gun techniques but they should be trained. And yet other situations you might yet be better off pitching the HHL as you draw the gun and activate the WML in order to do your best work immediately. To say one is going to work for every situation is poor planning and ideology.

As stated above most cops have a hard time pitching whatever is in their hand when a situation turns to shooting. Its a training issue but one that's hardly if ever covered by most agencies and yet we see it time and time again in videos. Guys holding tasers, OC, flashlights, ID's, pens and notebooks in one hand while going to the gun and never dropping it until after they shoot. You can almost see the mental step later in the video where they see they still have random crap in their hands and you get the "huh? why?" before the toss it.

I also work for a department that considers muzzling a use of force. On top of that even if you don't muzzle someone but a video angle makes it seem unsure you have to do a use of force. Cops are notorious for not wanting to type more paper than they have to, and if you're department disciplines for "too many use of forces in X amount of time" cops are also less likely to deal with the WML and risk the chances of it. Perks of policing in 2020.

[SoCalDep]

"Even in an agency that wants to treat muzzling as a use of force, it appears these cops are reasonable in doing so."

Have you seen the Ca POST Use of Force Policy Guidlines that came out last week? This is likely going statewide.

As to the topic, coming up on 29 years in law enforcement, the majority of it in patrol working nights (by choice). Currently in charge of Firearms Training for my department. As the posters above have noted, this is a training issue.....as in a complete lack of same for the overwhelming majority of cops. Especially when it comes to lowlight concerns. Currently, recruits in the Academy recieve some minimal, check the box training for lowlight shooting.....and then will likely never shoot in lowlight again for the rest of their career. Everyone knows its a glaring problem....they just don't care cause it's not their money the city will pay out in the event of a bad shooting. Thats the bottom line. Combine that, in our case, with an instructor Cadre who really doesn't have any lowlight training themselves, and you get a program where "Lowlight Shooting" in the Academy consists of a 30 minute lecture on different ways to hold a flashlight with your gun. And the instructors push back against the idea of any discussion of tactical use of light, because "its too high speed for them", and frankly they don't know what they don't know. I dont think its much different in most departments, so its no mystery you see poor manipulation skills.

I’ve been a full-time instructor for my department for nine years and low light /WML/hand held light tactics for patrol has kinda been my battle cry... I developed my department’s current low light training program, have written dozens of pages of reports to defend our “best practices” against ignorant mandates from outside and inside influences, presented to department executives and oversight organizations a on several occasions and I’m really... REALLY opinionated.

I’m gonna “like” the above quoted post but it deserves it’s own re-post. If what AMC describes sounds like you or your people seek help. PM him - me, or seek out modern training to make your program better.

AMC - Awesome post!

[Erick Gelhaus]

"Even in an agency that wants to treat muzzling as a use of force, it appears these cops are reasonable in doing so."

Have you seen the Ca POST Use of Force Policy Guidlines that came out last week? This is likely going statewide.

I had not seen it. Just downloaded it. I'll get through it in the next couple days.

[vcdgrips]

Thank you to all who are weighing. I asked for qualifications up front because there has been an increasing trend on the forum for people to weigh in authoritatively on a whole host of matters, particularly, medicine, science, law and law enforcement with little to no actual training, education or experience in the respective realms and not prefacing their comment(s) re that fact.

I really appreciate those of your who are professionals who have to deal/had to deal with this issue in the real world help somebody like myself who, while a serious student of the art, has little low light searching/shooting experience beyond sleep away training classes I have paid for myself, a few COF in IPSC/IDPA and some inservice training my client agencies have been gracious enough to invite me to. A frame of reference to be sure but nothing approaching the individual and collective experience of officers who have to navigate these issues on a daily basis.

Be safe and well. Blessings to you all in this time.

[AMC]

Something else that complicates this issue, somewhat, is that the majority of Lowlight Firearms training offered for years in the private sector, which influenced many of us in years past, was largely based on military experience. You had some serious hard dudes coming back with some lessons learned in blood, and trying to pass those lessons on, including to domestic LE. I have taken a lot of that training, and learned some very valuable skills. I also realized along the way, that the context matters. Lessons learned searching for Tangos in caves and bunkers doesn't always exactly equate to an LE building search for a possible burglar, or a pedestrian or traffic stop at night. Some trainers, and some agencies (like SoCalDeps, thanks largely to him), have begun to realize this discrepancy, and are designing tactics and techniques to fit the context of a patrol officer in an American LE agency. There are legal, training, and equipment differences that have to be taken into account.

Now.....add up the above needs against an agency that thinks "its always been good enough before", and you have the current state of lowlight training for most of American LE. There are some standouts....but they stand out for a reason.

[DDTSGM]

Slight derail, but in the event an officer has something like a taser or OC deployed and is going to switch to their firearm, do you recommend dropping said item or actively tossing it in the opposite direction of the suspect? Just trying to think how I might incorporate use of dumping less lethals in training as a civilian.

Sorry I didn't answer sooner, and I hope this isn't too off-topic.

I always drilled just open the hand and drop it as moving to draw - even on the square range, there is always movement incorporated. For the masses - 15 officer relays - we practiced diagonal to the rear and lateral. With smaller groups we always practiced diagonal in and out and lateral, with diagonal in being MY preference, simply because of the geometry involved.

I'm a simpler person than most, my goal was just to ingrain movement off the threat axis. As a lefty, I'm naturally biased to move to the left on the diagonal in or out; I've observed that righty's generally prefer to drive right when moving in or out on the diagonal. Practice both ways so if terrain dictates you can move either way. Some people are big on 'if the assailant is right-handed, move this way.' I'm not so much, simply because I feel it adds a level of analysis that slows the response of all but the most adept/trained.