Handheld and WML usage

[vcdgrips]

**SIDE CONVERSATION MADE INTO IT'S OWN THREAD - MOD**

Edge of my lane at best- In the Dolton IL shooting, the first cam I believe depicts an officer who is going back and forth re illuminating an armed subject with both his handheld and his WML. During the course of the encounter, he seems to have some challenges manipulating both at various times. What are the policies/best practices, if any, re illuminating an armed subject with just the WML so as to have the best grip on the service weapon possible?


Please state your qualifications to do so before chiming in.

[jnc36rcpd]

vcdgrips, I have thirty-eight years of municipal law enforcement and am now employed in campus security. I spent many years as an adjunct in-service instructor and attended several low light classes including the Surefire Institute instructor class. Proving I spent most of my career as a supervisor, I'll give you a definitive "It depends."

I doubt any agencies have policies/best practices regarding when to use a handheld versus a weapon light beyond the obvious mandate to not use your weapon light to illuminate any thing or person you're not justified in pointing one's gun at. The Dolton case was clearly a dynamic scene in which included a lengthy follow of the suspect coupled with flat out foot pursuit. Without getting into the weeds of this incident, officers may have used a handheld to maintain illumination without trying to keep the gun centered on the suspect which may have entailed the pistol lasering other officers or citizens. A handheld is often easier to manipulate that a pistol-mounted light absent a remote switch on the gun or may offer greater lumens, throw, spill, or a strobe feature (if you're into that). There is also the human compulsion to not drop an expensive light. Additionally, many agencies urge officers to hold suspects at gunpoint in low ready. This reduces the illumination on the suspect. While an officer can generally see well enough to observe the suspect's hands and or weapon, it's also natural to want to gain as much information about a threat as possible. This also may result in an officer using both handheld and weapon light.

[SoCalDep]

Edge of my lane at best- In the Dolton IL shooting, the first cam I believe depicts an officer who is going back and forth re illuminating an armed subject with both his handheld and his WML. During the course of the encounter, he seems to have some challenges manipulating both at various times. What are the policies/best practices, if any, re illuminating an armed subject with just the WML so as to have the best grip on the service weapon possible?


Please state your qualifications to do so before chiming in.

Qualifications: I’m a member of this forum.

Hand-held flashlights being used in an attempted Harries technique are very commonly pointed at the ground during the fight. That isn’t ideal. The WML remains pointed at the bad guy one is shooting at. More ideal. Less thought about equipment equals more thought about the problem.

If the gun is out - WML

If the gun is not out - HHL.

Change my mind.

[jnc36rcpd]

The more I worked with the Harries technique, the more convinced I was that it might work for one or two shots before it became a one-handed technique. That's for better trained personnel. While some can use the technique masterfully, that doesn't apply to the great unwashed masses.

Since I think many will be reluctant to drop their handheld at the moment of truth, even if that would be a better option, I believe that adds validity to the argument of lanyards or rings to smaller lights. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be too many equipment options for an officer to holster a handheld with a lanyard or ring.

Agree completely with my left coast colleague that one is better off shooting with a WML.

[JF1]

Active engagement, absolutely WML. However when teaching, I wouldn't lock students into absolutes since there will always be factors to consider when you have your gun out and still need to utilize a HH. We don't operate in an environment where we need to point our WML at everything. Trying to find numbers on a house, resident coming outside inquiring what is going on, residents approaching your perimeter position, high risk stops in a crowded urban environment telling people to get back, trying to illuminate your K9, etc. While these are common sense, I have found simple mantras without proper foundation or context over the years can lead to poor muzzle discipline. A saying on the range has been "Wherever your eyes goes your muzzle goes." Students tend to move their weapons so fast while scanning they don't have time to process what they are seeing. Was that their partner they just lased? Work for an agency that considers lasing anyone with the muzzle a use of force, then you'll need to make adjustments. Throw in BWC or cell phone video that don't accurately depict angles.

The reality is you need more time to train with WML and HH not only on a static range, but realistic training. How many agencies are doing that?

[DDTSGM]

The reality is you need more time to train with WML and HH not only on a static range, but realistic training. How many agencies are doing that?

One video that really stuck with me was the Constable Lunsford killing, caught on his patrol car video.

Lunsford seemed completely unaware that he was in a dangerous situation, ignoring numerous danger cues. When he was attacked by a man charging, grabbing him around the waist and ultimately bulling him to the ground, Lunsford fell while still holding one of the men's DL's and his (Lunsford's) flashlight in hand.

Based on that, when given the opportunity, we instituted 'drop drills' and other snap drills for about ten minutes a day after role call.

During in-service pistol classes I always spent time on drills where the officer was holding id and using flashlight to check id - both hands tied up - on command the officer would drop license, and draw and fire as moving diagonally to the rear, moving the flashlight beam to target's face. We did it dry, live during daylight exercises, and during the dimlight/night portion of the course, as well as during the final afternoon's Sim exercises (I was able to do night scenarios using our EVOC garage).

These type of 'simple' exercises were always the ones that received the most positive comments on course evals - to me, an indication that in-service programs are often lacking in this type of training.

I was also surprised to see how many veteran officers held the license so they were looking down at it, instead of around it at the subject, and also how many would try to bring flashlight and pistol together before shooting. So I added an on-range discussion/demo of how to hold light and id while doing field contacts at night, and practice on snapping the light to neck index.

I think a lot of trainers don't realize on a cognitive level how many basic habits instilled during Academy and FTO atrophy and are lost without some sustainment training.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Please state your qualifications to do so before chiming in.

Retired after a full career, mostly in uniform, working nights & evenings; SureFire Institute grad plus more; have taught some low light stuff;

They’re not searching for someone, they have him. The other tactics are a different discussion – likely driven by the fallout and stupidity of the contemporary operating environment and ignorant commentary (non-compliance while armed makes little baby jesus weep).

Rather than trying to work the HHL & pistol/WML at the same time the way that first officer is doing, either:
- go to a jaw/temple hold with the HHL & shoot SHO
- OR
- dump that handheld light & get both hands on the pistol
Dropping the HHL is a training issue and they may well not be there.

Two hands on the pistol and using the WML is preferable given the circumstances here. Recent manufacture WMLs have more than enough spill to illuminate the waist/sweatshirt pocket/hands while keeping your view from being blocked by the pistol, your arms, etc. Especially if they're static & working from cover. Even in an agency that wants to treat muzzling as a use of force, it appears these cops are reasonable in doing so. Being outside, with nothing overhead to redirect the light down, pretty much rules out a muzzle high ready position.

While the above is preferred for the shooting problem, I can easily see officers working with the pistol/WML in a lower ready position (think Spaulding’s arc of ready) and the HHL being used because everyone is still moving. From there, they'd transition to SHO and jaw/temple hold for the light for the shooting problem.

In the second bit of footage, there seems to be some decent light on the badguy – until the time to shoot arrives. Then the illum is off him and on the first cop’s feet.

For the last CCW skills class I did, I brought out the “Iphone 2x4s.” We did several runs on target, dry then live, where they had to dump the “phone” then draw then shoot. Gave them “permission” to drop what they were holding and do work.

[scw2]

During in-service pistol classes I always spent time on drills where the officer was holding id and using flashlight to check id - both hands tied up - on command the officer would drop license, and draw and fire as moving diagonally to the rear, moving the flashlight beam to target's face. We did it dry, live during daylight exercises, and during the dimlight/night portion of the course, as well as during the final afternoon's Sim exercises (I was able to do night scenarios using our EVOC garage).

These type of 'simple' exercises were always the ones that received the most positive comments on course evals - to me, an indication that in-service programs are often lacking in this type of training.

Slight derail, but in the event an officer has something like a taser or OC deployed and is going to switch to their firearm, do you recommend dropping said item or actively tossing it in the opposite direction of the suspect? Just trying to think how I might incorporate use of dumping less lethals in training as a civilian.

[BehindBlueI's]

Slight derail, but in the event an officer has something like a taser or OC deployed and is going to switch to their firearm, do you recommend dropping said item or actively tossing it in the opposite direction of the suspect? Just trying to think how I might incorporate use of dumping less lethals in training as a civilian.

I have tossed my Taser. Ideally you can holster up, but I've had to ditch it too fast to get it back in the rock-n-lock contraption that passes as a holster for it. I just pitched it behind me. Obviously the situation could dictate where, or even if, you can do so. Urban environment with bystanders/onlookers/unknown folks that's probably not the best answer. It was not a concern for me at the time.

[AMC]

"Even in an agency that wants to treat muzzling as a use of force, it appears these cops are reasonable in doing so."

Have you seen the Ca POST Use of Force Policy Guidlines that came out last week? This is likely going statewide.

As to the topic, coming up on 29 years in law enforcement, the majority of it in patrol working nights (by choice). Currently in charge of Firearms Training for my department. As the posters above have noted, this is a training issue.....as in a complete lack of same for the overwhelming majority of cops. Especially when it comes to lowlight concerns. Currently, recruits in the Academy recieve some minimal, check the box training for lowlight shooting.....and then will likely never shoot in lowlight again for the rest of their career. Everyone knows its a glaring problem....they just don't care cause it's not their money the city will pay out in the event of a bad shooting. Thats the bottom line. Combine that, in our case, with an instructor Cadre who really doesn't have any lowlight training themselves, and you get a program where "Lowlight Shooting" in the Academy consists of a 30 minute lecture on different ways to hold a flashlight with your gun. And the instructors push back against the idea of any discussion of tactical use of light, because "its too high speed for them", and frankly they don't know what they don't know. I dont think its much different in most departments, so its no mystery you see poor manipulation skills.