Tulsa gun show cancelled

[LittleLebowski]

This thread got pretty heated whilst the shitty mods were working, suffering from migraines, etc, and then it wound down back into civility. Let’s keep it civil.

[mtnbkr]

Are there actually gun shows that are worth a shit?

Even the big ones locally have been crap for the last decade or more unless you need to pick up a copy of The Turner Diaries, ziplock baggies of overpriced “Somedoods” handloads or see the same “dealers” with the same guns that are priced equal to the highest price they ever saw a similar gun priced at on gunbroker.

The internet killed gunshows long before covid did and I don’t miss them to be honest. I’d rather cruise gunbroker in the evening with a drink than spend time walking around being constantly flagged by jackasses. But that’s just me.

I think they're worthwhile. Not every time and not every venue, but in general. Sure, I can cruise gunbroker, but if I'm buying a gun and know what I want, I have to deal with the hassle of getting it shipped to a dealer, then going to the dealer and doing the paperwork, and the risk of it not being as advertised. If I'm buying a widget or part, I have to rely on the seller's description and pics. But, going to a show, I get to handle the items directly and I find things I may not have known even existed (like the special order S&W 29 with fixed sights like a ginormous M36) or wouldn't necessarily be put on GB. That said, you have to be an informed buyer.

Chris

[BehindBlueI's]

No they don't. You're a fucking moron.

When involved in discussions we expect you to:

Remain polite and professional in your conversation with others. Demeaning, insulting, and berating other members will not be tolerated. You are free to disagree, but do so respectfully and with humility.

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[BillSWPA]

Decisions to shatter the businesses and jobs lies with the country leaders, as are the solutions to offset the damages. They volunteered for the jobs and sometimes it is not all glamour. It is not the docs' jobs and I totally agree with you that docs who advice for that are shielded from being held accountable in a very direct way. But the same goes for the leaders who ultimately make such decisions. Fauci has lost as much reputation over covid response in some circles as Trump in others, and neither will be held liable in any way other than public opinion. As it has been said, no governmental employee regardless of party affiliation lost their jobs to covid.

That said, I would like to clarify my statement that you quoted. Everyone at the top of public health chain made their call and recommended for the lockdown. They put they reputation, legacy, possibly leadership positions (Trump saying he would've fired Fauci if not for damage control) on line. The opposing opinion group is doing it from the sidelines, except for the Swedish guy. It is very easy to sit in my office and criticize Fauci as I think he has screwed up a couple of times but I would've not wanted to be in his place when the call had to be made. Criticizing public health officials in retrospect is pretty much a Monday morning quarterbacking to me. The end point is below and I don't think it is a great outcome

A review by the Kaiser Health News service and The Associated Press finds at least 49 state and local public health leaders have resigned, retired or been fired since April across 23 states. The list has grown by more than 20 people since the AP and KHN started keeping track in June.

In my home state, the same governor who ordered the business shutdown left his own family’s kitchen cabinet making business open, despite it being in a category that should have shut down under his own rules. There are other kitchen cabinet makers in the state who were forced to shut down. He effectively hindered the competition.

The health secretary who ordered nursing homes to accept COVID positive patients pulled the secretary’s mother out of her nursing home as that decision was being made.

I have clients and friends who have been forced to shut down. I know people who were not able to reopen.

My home and business are within 2 miles of one of the worst nursing home outbreaks in the nation, which occurred despite two alternatives - which were specifically pointed out to the health department in the early stages of the outbreak - for COVID patients.

I am criticizing from the standpoint of having a very close look at the effects of the very decisions from which those making the decisions shielded themselves.

I respectfully disagree with the definition of sidelines in this situation.


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[HeavyDuty]

Fair enough.

You didn’t answer most of my questions.


Those of us who advocate fully opening up do have blood on our hands, as do those like you who advocate locking down. The question is which does less damage and hurts the least amount of people.


While I think your opinions are based on fear, and not clarity of thought, I do believe you have good intentions. Plus I could be wrong, and it could be my thinking that is off.


Remember they are trying to suppress one side of the discussion. That should at least give you some pause.

Sorry, I was a bit pissed last night. Mea culpa.

Yes, she lost everything and, if it wasn’t for emergency financial help from her temple, she would have been on the street. She was isolated with two of her immunodeficient boys, and the pandemic forced our hand with speeding up my move east - she was planning on selling the business before we moved in together. Her business is gone.

Contact tracing indicates the likely source of the outbreak at the nursing home that killed her mother was a large birthday party in the Haitian community attended by three aides that turned into a superspreader event. This was after things were supposed to be locked down.

Meanwhile, here in IL (where I was referring, not here at P-F) many people can’t even be assed enough to take basic precautions when they go out to eat, and too many restaurant and bar owners allow it. Reopening was capable of being done safely, but the people who fought masks and capacity limits ruined it for everyone. I don’t want to see things shut down, but they need to be smart about it - and now they need to get the current flareup under control before they start again.

[perlslacker]

https://pistol-forum.com/misc.php?do=showrules

my bad, I saw someone promulgating stupidity that is literally killing people and I lost my cool.

[TheNewbie]

Sorry, I was a bit pissed last night. Mea culpa.

Yes, she lost everything and, if it wasn’t for emergency financial help from her temple, she would have been on the street. She was isolated with two of her immunodeficient boys, and the pandemic forced our hand with speeding up my move east - she was planning on selling the business before we moved in together. Her business is gone.

Contact tracing indicates the likely source of the outbreak at the nursing home that killed her mother was a large birthday party in the Haitian community attended by three aides that turned into a superspreader event. This was after things were supposed to be locked down.

Meanwhile, here in IL (where I was referring, not here at P-F) many people can’t even be assed enough to take basic precautions when they go out to eat, and too many restaurant and bar owners allow it. Reopening was capable of being done safely, but the people who fought masks and capacity limits ruined it for everyone. I don’t want to see things shut down, but they need to be smart about it - and now they need to get the current flareup under control before they start again.

No worries, and I appreciate you answering my questions.

What it comes down to is you are more worried about the virus and I’m more worried about the lockdowns, mandates, and fear of the virus. That’s not an attack, it helps explains why we think the way we do.

[BillSWPA]

As much as I have criticized lockdowns, I will be equally critical of people who will not take simple precautions. Wearing a mask is no big deal - I have even done so while lifting weights at the YMCA. When I see people with their noses hanging out or the mask below their mouth, I do not understand.

The very business owners who were previously asked to shut down happily take far more extensive precautions.

If everyone would be responsible, maybe it would be possible to safely have the gun show. Everyone wears a proper mask in the proper manner. Everyone gets a temperature check on the way in. No one with symptoms shows up, and the show hosts offer a refund to any vendor who cannot show up due to symptoms. Hand sanitizer should be everywhere and used frequently. No one touches anything they are not serious about buying. Door handles and other high contact surfaces are cleaned regularly.

The problem is that so many people cannot be depended on to be responsible. A large event like that would turn into a super spreader event with even a small number of failures.

As we discuss rights verses responsibility, remember that the same argument applies to gun control.


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[TheNewbie]

As much as I have criticized lockdowns, I will be equally critical of people who will not take simple precautions. Wearing a mask is no big deal - I have even done so while lifting weights at the YMCA. When I see people with their noses hanging out or the mask below their mouth, I do not understand.

The very business owners who were previously asked to shut down happily take far more extensive precautions.

If everyone would be responsible, maybe it would be possible to safely have the gun show. Everyone wears a proper mask in the proper manner. Everyone gets a temperature check on the way in. No one with symptoms shows up, and the show hosts offer a refund to any vendor who cannot show up due to symptoms. Hand sanitizer should be everywhere and used frequently. No one touches anything they are not serious about buying. Door handles and other high contact surfaces are cleaned regularly.

The problem is that so many people cannot be depended on to be responsible. A large event like that would turn into a super spreader event with even a small number of failures.

As we discuss rights verses responsibility, remember that the same argument applies to gun control.


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In regard to weightlifting, I’m not sure how safe masks are. The other day, I almost passed out from hi rep heavy (for me) squats with no mask. Just wearing a mask for a few minutes makes me feel nauseous. There is no way I could safely work out in a mask. Thankfully I’m the only one in the gym so it’s a non issue.

While I don’t think masks do much good and can cause harm, I would be more than happy to run around with one on if we fully opened up. It’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make in order to see business, events, gatherings, etc fully come back on line.

The thing that concerns me about the actual virus is people not receiving proper care early during the virus. Otherwise I think our biggest concern is the fear.

Your position is respectable though and may very well be the right one to have. It’s eons ahead of most and it’s the kind someone with my position could find balance and work with.

[BillSWPA]

In regard to weightlifting, I’m not sure how safe masks are. The other day, I almost passed out from hi rep heavy (for me) squats with no mask. Just wearing a mask for a few minutes makes me feel nauseous. There is no way I could safely work out in a mask. Thankfully I’m the only one in the gym so it’s a non issue.

While I don’t think masks do much good and can cause harm, I would be more than happy to run around with one on if we fully opened up. It’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make in order to see business, events, gatherings, etc fully come back on line.

The thing that concerns me about the actual virus is people not receiving proper care early during the virus. Otherwise I think our biggest concern is the fear.

Your position is respectable though and may very well be the right one to have. It’s eons ahead of most and it’s the kind someone with my position could find balance and work with.

I will admit that I am more and more inclined to remove the mask while actually lifting weights if not in close proximity to someone than I was when I first went back. I have, however, been able to do it wearing a mask. One reason I do not want to be a mask Nazi is that there are people who have legitimate, genuine reasons why they cannot wear a mask.

A few months ago, a couple of hairstylists in Missouri did not realize that they had Covid, and saw about 139 customers between them when they were infected. Both they and all of their customers wore masks. Not a single customer was infected. Masks are not perfect, and valid criticisms exist, but they work.


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