RO Fatally Shot at NY USPSA Match

[YVK]

In terms of my vast competition creds, a place I definitely destroy Caleb is my attempt to kill someone at a USPSA match — I shot two whole magazines at another competitor down range and we both lived.

Should've shot a major PF, maybe he would've gone down then.

What strikes me as a (relatively) new competitor is that I was unaware of the possibility that guns used in competition might not be drop safe. I mean, I always assumed that you'd have to be an idiot to carry a gun that wasn't. The whole "drop gate" on the Sig P320 affected my buying decision

There's was a nicely done experiment with a series 70 1911, posted on old Yam's website over 10 years ago. Showed a pretty good rate of primer ignition when gun was dropped, yet I've not heard too many people bringing this up as a reason to ditch 1911s for carry. It is not only about stakes, but also odds: I don't think I've heard of duty grade 1911 going off that way, and in that experiment it had to be dropped from a decent height and straight on muzzle.
The 320, at least in my mind, was in the league of its own from the probabilities standpoint: it had been on the market for a few years only when multiple sources reported the problem and several people claimed injuries.

That said, I own probably the only 1911 that had been converted from series 70 to 80, and I've just replaced extended firing pins on my CZ slides that still had them, so there's that...

Wondering how many ROs either at matches or ranges choose to wear at least soft armor for safety.

'round here they wouldn't wear a face mask even when suggested to, what body armor...

Practically speaking, it is an ultra low probability event we're discussing, don't think armor is really an answer to that.

[JSGlock34]

I've never seen a RO wear body armor, but I have seen ROs position themselves quite precariously to observe the 180 line.

[jetfire]

I seem to recall a USPSA competitor killed a year or two ago in California when a round passed through an imperfection in a berm during a match.

The Raahauges incident involved a competitor at a USPSA match getting killed by a round fired from someone who was shooting on a general use bay, not as part of the match. Basically unsafe range design. I suppose you could count it as a competition fatality, but since the cause of the bullet was unrelated to the match, I'd say no.

[SteveB]

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread but do we know where the RO was hit? Wondering how many ROs either at matches or ranges choose to wear at least soft armor for safety.

I remember an incident at the NTI, in 2000 I think, where an RO was shot by a participant. It was a 360° range, and the RO was standing at the entrance behind the shooter, who was engaging those realistic rubber dummy targets (with clothes) that the NTI used to use. The gun was a .40 Glock loaded with ball. The shooter ran through the targets, checked his rear, saw the RO, and shot him. The RO was wearing a vest, but the round hit him in the hip joint. I was standing just outside the range talking to a couple of tac-med guys, one a trauma surgeon, when the screaming started. They were on that guy before I could even process what had happened. Needless to say, he had excellent pre-hospital care. Bad injury, but he lived.

[fatdog]

I remember an incident at the NTI, in 2000 I think, .

Yes, I read that incident report, cannot remember the year. They were running a 360 degree shoot stage in a supposedly special 360 degree shooting bay...unsafe by any definition to have an RO present.

[Eyesquared]

I don't believe there is any requirement in the rules to report any and all safety violations to the USPSA organization.

My club recently barred a shooter from our future matches because he lost his temper and threw his malfunctioning PCC on the ground, in that case he's being barred under rule 6.4.4 and we do have to report to the org within a week of applying that rule. The wording is actually quite ambiguous and it's not clear to me whether the report to the org happens once or whether we would have to notify USPSA on a per-match basis if this shooter were to keep signing up for matches and get turned away repeatedly. Unless someone had a track record of being unsafe or conducting themselves poorly this rule wouldn't be applicable.

[Clusterfrack]

My club recently barred a shooter from our future matches because he lost his temper and threw his malfunctioning PCC on the ground...

That would be a lifetime ban if I were in charge.

[GJM]

That would be a lifetime ban if I were in charge.

Because PCC or throwing it?

In speaking with a USPSA area director, I know that USPSA is very liability conscious. It came out of a discussion that he initiated on appendix carry, and the organization’s concern about what additional liability appendix carry at matches brought with it.

[Clusterfrack]

Because PCC or throwing it?

LOL! If people need throw their PCCs when they malfunction, maybe we can have bullet-resistant trashcans every 10' or so in each bay?

[backtrail540]

I saw a few pretty gross home gun smith jobs when I used to RO. I look at it like racing. You wouldn't drive a top fuel car on the street because it is unsafe and modified to get every ounce of performance out of it and lack the safety features needed to drive on the street. The same thing for open/limited guns. You wouldn't want to carry them because they are modified to get every ounce of performance from them and lack the safety features necessary for a carry gun.

Just as the track is a controlled environment that helps minimize damage from accidents, the range does the same - but things still happen and sometimes people get hurt or killed.

The difference being, Cletus isn't going to be able to build a top fuel car in his garage (doesn't stop him from doing dumb shit to his 3rd gen camaro, also making it unfit for street use but that's not the point I guess) whereas Bubba and his home smithin' job is much more easily available to the average person.

I bet some are ignorant of the safety compromises and others simply don't care because it's a game gun etc....