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Thread: Substituting Small Rifle Primers for Small Pistol

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by NGP View Post
    Let us know how they work, thinking of trying the same myself.
    As soon as the weather is nice enough to sit at the range for an hour or two I will try them and let you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flat6 View Post
    I ran a few magtech small rifle primers over 3.2 titegroup with 147 zero bullets and had clean ignitions with Glock 45 stock trigger and springs. Couldn’t tell recoil difference versus federal pistol version of the same load. I don’t own a chrono. How are all you adjusting your loads with the rifle primers?
    The same way you would when changing any component, drop the charge weight by about five % then work your way up.
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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    The same way you would when changing any component, drop the charge weight by about five % then work your way up.
    One consideration might be that working your way back up might not be so easy, since flat primers are one of the most common signs of pressure.
    I loaded some with the normal mid-level loads I typically use and it seemed fine. I wonder if pistol powder in cartridges like 9mm just burn so fast anyway you cannot ignite them any much more faster?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    One consideration might be that working your way back up might not be so easy, since flat primers are one of the most common signs of pressure.
    I loaded some with the normal mid-level loads I typically use and it seemed fine. I wonder if pistol powder in cartridges like 9mm just burn so fast anyway you cannot ignite them any much more faster?
    Flat primers may or may not indicate high pressure. Federal 100s will flatten at .38 Special pressure, while CCI 500s will have rounded edges at 9x19 pressure.

    Don’t know if it’s possible to over-ignite powder in handgun cartridges, it makes sense to proceed with caution. I’m going with matching velocities.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    I’m going with matching velocities.
    That is probably the best bet, as well as staying away from maximums anyway.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    I did a quick test just to see if the idea was viable. The only small pistol primers I have were some Federal, Winchester, and some from a company out of Bosnia. The Unis, Bosnian, are magnum primers and I have had problems in the past getting them to set off in any of my pistols.

    I loaded 10 of each type in some once fired Speer .223 brass. I used a generic 55gr FMJ bullet and a max charge of BL-C (2). I also loaded some using Wolf small rifle magnum primers for comparison.

    The only issue I has was with the Federal primers. Two of them were pierced. The Winchester and Unis worked without issue and showed no signs of pressure.

    I'm going to expand on this test later as soon as I get enough once fired brass. The Speer brass I used was crimped and I don't feel like I removed the crimp well enough, causing primer seating issues. This is probably why I had such large extreme spreads with them.

    Anyway, here are the velocity data I got, all shot out of a 20in BCM match upper.

    Wolf small rifle magnum.
    High 3207fps
    Low 3089fps
    Average 3160fps

    Unis small pistol magnum
    High 3186fps
    Low 3105fps
    Average 3145fps

    Winchester small pistol
    High 3190fps
    Low 3051fps
    Average 3129fps

    Federal small pistol
    High 3202fps
    Low 3058fps
    Average 3105fps
    @5pins- While I've loaded 10's of thousands of 9x21 (loaded to 9x19mm OAL for tanfoglio open guns) 183-185 PF, high pressure ammo back in the day with SRP, I would caution someone going the other direction using SPP instead of SRP- especially in something with a non-dropsafe floating firing pin (most 556 and 6.5 grendels). Chances of a detonation when when dropped, a slamfire, or pierced primer all increase with that combination.

    Respectfully,
    Last edited by Skinner Precision, LLC; 02-04-2021 at 05:57 PM.
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  6. #56
    https://youtu.be/NGVRGsoOr6k

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  7. #57
    FWIW,

    After reading this thread earlier and doing some research,

    I decided to load up some 9mm 115 gr Xtremes with my usual charge of 4.5grs HP38 at 1.145-1.150" COAL with Federal 205 SR primers instead of Federal 100s which I typically use.

    I tested 50 of those rounds in a bone stock Glock 48 and had no issues nor did the brass look concerning to me. I went ahead and loaded up another 550 of those (600 total). I am planning to use the remaining 400 for 38spl loads.


    In the past I've loaded 115 and 147s with Remington 6 1/2 primers as well, my understanding that the consensus on those is that they've been considered to be so mild (not even suitable for 5.56 ammo) that they're treated more or less as defacto small pistol primers.

    I am aware I am posting this as anecdotal without any data or numbers.

  8. #58
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    ^^^^For the .38 Special loads, I'd use whatever pistol primers you have instead. Revolvers seem to be less tolerant of the harder primer cups.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    ^^^^For the .38 Special loads, I'd use whatever pistol primers you have instead. Revolvers seem to be less tolerant of the harder primer cups.
    With Wolf Magnum Small rifle primers, I found this to be true. With 4.5 grains of Unique I had a greater percentage fail to fire on the first try in my Speed Six. Some took 2 to 3 strikes to fire, one never did. Great trigger control test[emoji23]

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  10. #60
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    The only real difference between pistol and rifle primers is the hardness of the cup. I don't know why this is so hard for so many people to understand. It's no different than understanding the difference between standard and magnum primers,which isn't much. People insist on acting as if they're launching a rocket to mars.

    When I've been forced to use rifle primers in handgun loads, I've never bothered to adjust the charge weight, I've simply loaded them up like usual and went shooting. We used to know these things before spreadsheets and apps and the like. Now, it's suddenly become akin to cracking the Rosetta stone.

    I typically see the neccesity for second stikes at about a ten percent rate in revolvers, as well as my tuned up Beretta 92s. With 1911s and S&W 3rd Gen pistols ignition is one hundred percent. The latter has been with CCI #34 Rifle primers, which are probably the hardest domestic primers made.

    I differ my loading procedures in only one way: large rifle primers are just a bit taller than their pistol counterparts. As such, I take a few seconds to clean the carbon out of the primer pocket before seating, in order to make sure I get a proper seating depth. Other than that, there's no need to get wrapped around the axle about it.
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