Let's talk about vetting carry ammo

[BehindBlueI's]

I think one key is to pick a gun and ammo combo that is in service with a large .mil/.gov agency. Then you have thousands of data points to tell you whether there is a systemic issue with that gun/ammo combo. So if you pick a Glock 19 with 124 grain Gold Dots, it's been beta tested by thousands of people shooting millions of rounds. You then just have to figure out if there is anything about your particular pistol that needs fixing.

I completely agree. It may get me kilt in the streets, but I ran 10 rounds of my carry ammo through my Glock 45 after 200 rounds of range ammo and called it good.

[Suvorov]

As I recall from my statistics classes, 30 is seen as the smallest sample size that will give valid results. Bigger is better of course but that usually results in increased cost, so 100 is seen as a good ratio of cost to results.

For me, I feel comfortable with a box of 50 in an otherwise reliable gun.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

When I get new carry ammo, I lay them all out on dry, clean paper towels and take a tissue and roll them to get rid of any excess die lube. I also roll them with a little stick watching the case mouth to make sure that there are no deformities from the dies. A slight deformity in the case mouth can interfere with feeding.

I also feel around the entire rim and headstamp for any burrs or edges that could interfere with feeding or extraction.

I visually check all primer seating depths when they're still in the box.

[Hambo]

A year later, another dog shooting and at 6 rounds the gun chokes,

Shooting dogs is bad karma.

I have been told that when someone commits suicide with a Glock, there is commonly a stovepipe. When I was more interested in fast draws, presentations under .55 commonly caused a stoppage for me in Glock pistols. I have also encountered stoppages when not holding the pistol firmly.

That's got to be a small subset of suicides, but putting that aside, I think you're onto the problem.

I won't carry a gun that malfunctions more than ~once per ~one thousand rounds. It reassures me to have witnessed those thousand rounds in person before I carry the gun.

Kids these days. There's a reason we practiced malfunction drills. Even my legendary P7 puked more than once per thousand.

I completely agree. It may get me kilt in the streets, but I ran 10 rounds of my carry ammo through my Glock 45 after 200 rounds of range ammo and called it good.

I've done the same thing. When we changed brands of duty ammo, which seemed like it was every 2-3 years, getting to shoot 50 rounds of it for practice was a big deal. Because, duty ammo is for duty, practice ammo is for practice.

[Rex G]

I think that at least some of my past “limp wrist” malfunctions have actually been “numb thumb” malfunctions. I did much damage to my right thumb and wrist, holding N-Frames improperly, in an effort to get enough finger on the trigger, in the Eighties. Many of the rounds fired were big-bore Magnums. With this off-centered hold, muzzle flip was not straight upward, but torqued to my left.

Starting in the Nineties, I dealt with several bouts of carpal tunnel issues, causing by typing in ergonomically-compromised positions, as our patrol cars became our “offices.” Paddling canoes and kayaks, and riding bicycles, caused additional cumulative trauma.

If my right shoulder/arm/hand are having a bad day, I can detect the weakness in my right thumb, ring finger, and pinkie, while my index and middle fingers remain strong.

I experienced malfs with a full-sized, all-steel 1911, one day, when I felt that my right shoulder/arm/hand were “having a bad day.” The same happened with my P229R .40. Neither of these weapons are “known” for being particularly susceptible to “limp-wristing.”

I have not experienced any malfunctions, of any kind, ever, with Gen3 or Gen4 G17 Glocks. Perhaps, just luck? Maybe I have only fired them on “good” days, or “good-enough” days? Even so, when I resume carrying G17 pistols, it may well be in lefty holsters, with a revolving pistol carried right-side. (Presently, I am very concerned about bringing COVID home to my wife, whose health profile is high-risk. I need to live-fire Glocks frequently, to maintain acceptable skill, so I live in a mostly-revolver world.)

[feudist]

Runs thousands of rounds of overpressure ammo and 16K rounds of aluminum cased ammo through an arguably outdated pistol (or at least one which has been considerably re-engineered) with a large number of those rounds run with no lube, maintenance, or parts changes mentioned.

Complains when said pistol eventually fails.

OK.

Ah, no.

The no lube was just during the vetting process. I lube weekly (phrasing)

I did change the recoil spring once.

what about the Gen3? While 127+P+ may arguably be overpressure, Gold Dot +P certainly isn't.

I think GJM hit on the only real solution: 2 guns. I don't think any vetting process could be more thorough than what I used(still use)

I think malfunctions are vastly under reported and actually ignored by firearm shooters. I had an SKS that would reliably jam every 80-100 rounds.

A shooting buddy swore repeatedly that his had never ever malfunctioned over thousands of rounds. We go shooting and his jammed damned near immediately.

Was that the first? I doubt it.

[Rex G]

On the original topic, I have long been a believer in vetting each carry mag, and mercilessly culling, either by relegating them to training-only, or, in the cause of two Kimber mags, crushing them in a vise, to make certain that no unfortunate soul would ever use them to protect life.

[Nephrology]

Kids these days. There's a reason we practiced malfunction drills. Even my legendary P7 puked more than once per thousand.

Listen, every malfunction drill I practice is one sub-second draw and magdump into an IPSC target 3 yards away that I won't be able to post to the 'gram

[feudist]

As I recall from my statistics classes, 30 is seen as the smallest sample size that will give valid results. Bigger is better of course but that usually results in increased cost, so 100 is seen as a good ratio of cost to results.

For me, I feel comfortable with a box of 50 in an otherwise reliable gun.

This was a question I had: what is a statistically valid number of tests?

With that info you then select a round off of Doc's list.

GJM mentioned the "Bath tub" shaped life cycle: infant mortality, expected service life, end of life failures.

Take the gun, a set of numbered duty magazines and several types of quality practice ammo: 115, 124 and 147. I would try to include both soft and hard primered brands.

Fire the practice ammo a sufficient number of times(2x the statistically valid number? 10x?) to rule out QC/QA issues and take the system past "infant mortality".

Then start firing duty rounds through Mag#1. First test a chambered round 10 times to check it will cycle correctly against full magazine spring pressure. Have the first round

in the magazine be a duty round too, to check that bullet position's feed reliability. Then test each position's feeding(e.g, rounds #1 through #15) 10x.

Repeat this through all the duty mags. If that number reaches statistical success, you are done.Or continue until you're happy.

I would fire the gun from every conceivable grip and position. I would then visually inspect each round to be carried: primer, case mouth and case gauge/plunk test.

And practice malfunction clearance. And carry a B.U.G.

Have I missed anything?

[GyroF-16]

^^^^^^^
I like it.