Let's talk about vetting carry ammo

[JonInWA]

Due to the lack of availability and cost (of both ball range/target and carry cartridges), if I were to introduce a new gun into my stable at this point, I would likely run 50-100 rounds through the gun at a square range to verify function and zero, and perhaps 1 magazine of select carry cartridge(s).

The gun would then be used for training, qualification and IDPA matches.

And, in a response to one of the OP's comments, I personally don't shun Glock's G21 or G22-with the caveat that my personal G21 is a Gen 3, with thousands of rounds through it, with ony one operational issue-a filure to chamber a malformed Winchester White Box cartridge that was unchamberable in any gun, and my G22 is a Gen4 that I purchased some 5 years after the Gen4 G22 introductioon, when all the flies had been worked out, and has run flawlessly with both ball and hollowpoint duty ammunition (and I'm looking forward to getting one of the Gen5 G22s in the future).

For duty ammunition, I use DocGKR-vetted selections, with a strong default to Speer Gold Dots. Doc's recommendations are also echoed by the choices of my local police department; they use Speer Gold Dot and Winchester Ranger, the norm being the Gold Dot with thhe Ranger being the back-up choice depending distributer availability. For range/practice/match, my preference is to Sellier & Bellot 180 gr, but these days I'm not being picky, using what quality factory 180 gr or 165 gr that I can get-fortunately still some S&B, Federal, PMC Bronze, Remington/UMC.

The amunition situation we're currently in, due to a combination of COVID-19 and foreign sourcing supply constraints, civil disturbances and national uncertainty is the worst I've personall experienced. The only cartridges that seeem to be both reasonably available and somewhat reasonably priced is .40...My expecttion from all sources that I discuss this with is that the ammunition constraint situation will persist through some point in 2021. I inevitably see an impact in personal and organzational training, and in matches-both in terms of round counts and participation period.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

I think aircraft power plant reliability is a reasonable comp. It is generally accepted that the first hours on a new engine and the last hours before overhaul have the greatest probability of mechanical failure. In other words, get through out of the box failures and initial break in, and you are likely to have reliable service until the engine wears out.

If you apply this to a handgun, do initial vetting and you are likely OK until the pistol wears out parts. Of course, a part can always fail early, causing an issue with a handgun just like with an aircraft engine.

The other big variable for an aircraft engine is fuel, and bad fuel can cause an otherwise reliable engine to have problems. This correlates to ammo related problems with the handgun.

For all these reasons, airlines run multi engine aircraft, and there is probably an argument for a BUG, to give yourself redundancy.

[BN]

I forgot to mention mags.

I used to shoot a lot of IDPA/USPSA with Glocks. I have a Gen 2 that I'm guessing has near 100,000 rounds. I used the same 4 or 5 mags all the time. The gun ran near perfect until the time it didn't. I replaced the mags with new ones and then it ran fine again.

I've had the same thing with a couple of Gen 3s.

My theory is that a combination of worn mag springs, worn recoil springs, and shooting under pressure caused the malfunctions. It was usually some sort of misfeed. It always happened to me during a match where I was pushing it. Never happened in practice. What I usually did was just go to my backup Glock for my main gun. Later I would buy new mags and replace the recoil spring and the malfunctioning gun would go back to working alright.

[GAP]

Personally, I never got into just blazing through ammo. If your gun will push 100 of them through the same magazine with no problems, just designate that specific magazine for carry use only.

After that, each range trip I shoot the chambered round to ensure function from it’s carried state.

It gives me peace of mind and allows me to confirm function with just one additional round.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

If this stoppage seems to occur when responding to a dog, I would take the pistol to an outdoor range (or be creative with a way to safely test) and duplicate the steep downward angle and test firing in that condition.

It is possible that the steep downward angle is contributing to the stoppage along with the change in grip caused by adrenaline and that angle and impeding the slide movement a little.

[Nephrology]

I like to put a case of ammo through any gun I am planning on carrying. This has as much to do with my personal confidence in the pistol as it does an objective measure of the pistol's reliability itself.

I won't carry a gun that malfunctions more than ~once per ~one thousand rounds. It reassures me to have witnessed those thousand rounds in person before I carry the gun.

[Archer1440]

Runs thousands of rounds of overpressure ammo and 16K rounds of aluminum cased ammo through an arguably outdated pistol (or at least one which has been considerably re-engineered) with a large number of those rounds run with no lube, maintenance, or parts changes mentioned.

Complains when said pistol eventually fails.

OK.

[pangloss]

I'm in the thousand round camp too. Most of those rounds will be range ammo with a few mags of carry ammo. I have multiple vetted pistols, so if one became a problem pistol during an ammo shortage, I could switch to another pistol and not have to worry about finding ammo to verify function. None of my Glocks have ever had a problem with any carry ammo. That's not an excuse to not verify a new pistol, but this topic is not something that I spend a lot of time worrying about. If I were LE, I'd give more thought to the matter.

I also think that the common gun philosophy applies to some degree to ammo. Pick Glock/HK/Beretta+Gold Dot/HST/Ranger, and you're probably tilting the odds in your favor.

[Lester Polfus]

I think a leading cause of stoppages with polymer pistols is how you hold them.

Unless it's a Glock 20 running hard casts load, then guys on the internet who could only afford to shoot half a box of hard cast will tell you you're limp wristing, even though you know you're choking lt like a chicken.

I think one key is to pick a gun and ammo combo that is in service with a large .mil/.gov agency. Then you have thousands of data points to tell you whether there is a systemic issue with that gun/ammo combo. So if you pick a Glock 19 with 124 grain Gold Dots, it's been beta tested by thousands of people shooting millions of rounds. You then just have to figure out if there is anything about your particular pistol that needs fixing.

I know Glock's reputation, but I don't know that I would pick a +p+ load as a carry load, and shoot lots of it in a gun I intended to carry.

[19852+]

The grip related stoppages don’t seem to be as common with the M&P and other polymer guns. Maybe I just haven’t seen it and it is an issue.

What do you think?

I had a HK P-30 that did not like a compromised grip. Good firm 2 hand grip no problem. Standing behind the pistol, good stance, firm grip, strong hand or off hand g2g but anything else? Stovepipe every time.

I wish I could afford to fully vet carry ammo but what I can do is reload using similar bullets and load to the velocity of the defensive ammo. My newest mags are carry mags, once they've proven themselves. A new mag comes into service, gets proven then bumps the next mag down. The oldest get used for training, the middle are used in competition. Works for me.