Saving up to get started, and need advice.

[Hambo]

That’s a great resource. It matches my experience: all you really need is a 550.

I read it every time I start to want a 650/750/1050/Mark7 to bring me back to reality. So far it's saved me thousands of dollars.

[DMF13]

You have time to read this, too. It's an in depth look at which Dillon you really need, but you could extrapolate it to Hornady, Mark 7, etc

https://brianenos.com/dillon-2/

Thanks I've read it a couple of times. Reading that motivated me to start this thread, as before I saw that I had pretty much decided the Square Deal B was going to be the thing I needed. That, along with info saying I needed to start with a single stage or turret, and upgrade later, made me think I needed some more information, and needed to consider other options.

[DMF13]

Yes. Somebody made one.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mini-xl650-case-feeder

And they also made a similar product to feed bullets.

That would be something I might consider after learning the process without it. I wish something like that were available for the SDB, 550, and Hornady Lock-N-Load AP.

Other stuff--I'd also advise that the powder checker isn't fail-safe. It requires setting up and adjustment. I'd have a press light long before I worried about a powder check. But I totally get it. I remember being absolutely paranoid about double-charging or no-charging a cartridge.

Oh inderstand its not a failsafe, but youre spot on that I'm a little paranoid about double charges and squibs, and that would definitely add to my comfoet level.

Don't take any of the stuff I say as push-back.

Same with my comments to you, and others. I'm not arguing, just discussing my thought process, to help find where any holes in my decision making might be.

Based on comments here, and discovering this: https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/daa-2...d-crimping-die
after following your link to the manual case feeder, I've added the 550 back into consideration. As I understand it, that 2-in-1 die would allow me to use the Powder Cop or Lockout with the 550. I know that is a bit of OCD/paranoid concern, but concerns about safety is one of the reasons I haven't gotten into reloading earlier in life.

[mmc45414]

Yes. Somebody made one.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mini-xl650-case-feeder

Thanks for that!!
I have been screwing around using one feeder on two 650s, that is not so bad, but now I have been using it also on one of tge APPs. Maybe this for the 650 that stats setup for 9mm.



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[Trigger]

I’ll roll in with my perspective. Free, and that is what is what it is worth. I reload almost everything now. 5 pistol calibers (9,40,45,10mm,9x23) and at least 15 rifle calibers. Not much shotgun reloading, because the cost of factory ammo is very close to the cost of reloading.

I learned how to load metallic cartridge as a kid on a single stage press. When I started shooting league pistol (action pistol USPSA stuff) I bought a 650 with a casefeeder. I ran that for about 15 years. But the 650 is in many ways less flexible than the 550. Caliber changes take longer. Primer system was a lot less flexible (I think the 750 is better). When you screw something up on the 650 it takes longer to clear and fix than the 550. The 550 changes calibers much faster, and is more flexible. I eventually bought a 550 and found I liked it better than the 650. So I sold the 650 and moved to a Super1050. The swaging on the press is a huge advantage of the 1050, plus you prime on the upstroke, whereas on the 650/550 you load on the upstroke and prime on the downstroke. Would I recommend a 1050 to everyone? No. But when you need one due to volume or time or swaging, you will know it.

I think the 550 is a great press for those new to reloading. And you will never really outgrow it, as it is faster than a single stage, and much more flexible and faster to change. When I need to prep brass, just depriming, I can run the 550 with my left hand, and place the case with my right. Almost as fast as with a casefeeder. No need to remove cases as you would with a single stage press. When I need to neck-turn cases, I size in station 1 and neck expand in station 2. Fewer steps than running a single stage, easier to set up/configure than the 650. I reload all my precision rifle on a 550. Prep/size brass in one trip through the press, then clean primer pockets and hand prime. Fill with powder with an automated scale such as the Chargemaster. Second trip through the press to seat bullets in station 3. In Station 4 you can add a Redding Instant Indicator to check OAL consistency. It works on the shoulder of cases during sizing also, so you can check shoulder setback during sizing. David Tubb and John Whidden (and many others) load their ammo on a 550, if it is good enough for them, it will not hold me back.

I think at around the 100 case point, it is faster to use a 650/750/1050 than a 550. If you have several hundred to load, the bigger presses are faster, but they take more to set up and tune. Once I get a 1050 set up for 223 or 9mm, I leave it that way for months and load many thousand rounds. I can cheat and load 300Blk and 223 Ackley Improved on the 1050 when set up for 223, the changeover is not as involved. For PRS calibers like 6mmBR, 6x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, the 550 is very precise and quick.

Now the disadvantage of the 650/750/1050 for precision rifle is the powder measure and stick powder. Just not as precise as weighing every charge. But there some rifle powders out there that measure very well through the Dillon powder measure. Examples like H335, CFE223, 8208XBR, and the new 6.5 Staball. I use 8208 for my 223 Ackley, and out of the 1050 is shoots 1/2” groups at 100. I’ll take that for practice ammo on a 1050 that I can produce 100 rounds in 5-7 minutes! I have some 308 practice loads with Norma N203B/RL15 that also shoot very well. If/when I run out of H4350 for the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6x47 before this ammo demand period ends, I might just have to buy a couple 8 pounders of 6.5 Staball and load that on the 1050. See if I can get it to shoot and produce consistent velocities.

Bottom line, I recommend the 550 to you starting out. If you want more press, you can sell the 550 for almost no money lost. But my recommendation is to keep the 550 and augment it with a 750/1100.

[Wise_A]

Based on comments here, and discovering this: https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/daa-2...d-crimping-die

Just so you're aware, most, if not all die manufacturers make a seat-and-crimp die. They're a little more fiddly to set up, and sometimes you have to play with them to avoid bullet shaving, but they do the job just as well as separate seat and crimp dies. They're handy for all sorts of stuff like that--for instance, maybe you want to use a Lyman "M" expander die, while still charging your cases on the press, but you only have four stations. That said, I think it's easiest just to start with dies made by the same manufacturer as your press, and match the powder dispenser to the press. There are lots of ways to make different things work together, but starting out, you're more likely to meet with success if you just get matching stuff. There's plenty of time to over-complicate simple shit later on.

I'm not sure if the DAA casefeeder actually works on the 550. I seem to remember someone talking about making modifications to use it on one, and I know that DAA was planning on rolling one out in the summer of 2019. I don't know if it ever got produced or if it can be made to work on the 550. I'd web-crawl and maybe call them up and ask. That design would be a perfect fit for the 550B and SDB, and really, for the way a lot of people use their 650/750. I'd have gone that route myself, but I found that when I use the tube-and-dish-type feeder on the Lee AB Pro, I was mostly dropping the cases directly into the tubes just to avoid the odd flipped case.

Anyways, with any of the presses mentioned, the trick is to only have your hand doing one thing per stroke, especially if you're manually indexing. For instance, on the 550, you could use a casefeeder, and have your hand bring up and seat a bullet, and then advance the stations in one movement. That's a lot of movement and hand-waving saved over having to bring a case and a bullet up.

The Lee AB Pro does sort of the same thing, except you do one thing every half a stroke: Lever goes down, you operate the primer feeder as the press seats a bullet. Lever goes up, your put a bullet in a case, while the press seats a primer.

An auto-indexing Lee turret is similar:

(1) Put a bare case in
(2) Up lever for resize and deprime, operate primer feeder
(3) Down lever, seats a primer. Reach into your box of bullets.
(4) Up lever, charge/expand. Pick up a bullet.
(5) Down lever, place the bullet.
(6) Up lever, seat the bullet.
(7) Down lever.
(8) Up lever, crimp.
(9) Down lever, remove the cartridge, retrieve and place a new case (keep your ammo box and jar of cases close to each other).

And yes, if you look at that, a three-station press with a combined seat-and-crimp die would be faster. Lee used to make one. You could just populate three stations and advance through the bare one, but you're still having to cycle the lever that fourth time, so it's still not as fast as a three-station would be, and also kind of uneven and janky--normal cycle, normal cycle, normal cycle, really-quick-yank-and-pump...normal cycle, normal cycle...Really breaks up the rhythm.

[olstyn]

And yes, if you look at that, a three-station press with a combined seat-and-crimp die would be faster. Lee used to make one. You could just populate three stations and advance through the bare one, but you're still having to cycle the lever that fourth time, so it's still not as fast as a three-station would be, and also kind of uneven and janky--normal cycle, normal cycle, normal cycle, really-quick-yank-and-pump...normal cycle, normal cycle...Really breaks up the rhythm.

That's only true with a turret, or if you're treating a progressive like a turret and cycling each case all the way around the plate before putting the next one in. A true progressive has essentially no speed difference with regard to how many stations exist or how many are populated except in terms of the fact that for any given run of production, a 5-station press will have one *total* pull of the handle more than a 4-station press. A theoretical 3-station progressive would take 302 pulls of the handle to produce 300 rounds, whereas a 4-station progressive would take 303, and a 5-station would take 304. A turret, OTOH, takes # stations * # rounds; 300 rounds takes 900 pulls on a theoretical 3-station or 1200 pulls on a 4-station, etc. Progressives save a lot of time vs turrets, and of course turrets save a fair bit of time (mostly in terms of smoothness of operations) vs single stage.

[TOTS]

Several comments include mentions of a case feeder, and it seems like that's what is needed to really make something like the XL750 shine.

So I have a question. Why doesn't anyone offer anything other than a motorized case feeder? It seems to me that a lower cost, but effective option would be to have a manual loaded case feed tube, much like the primer tubes, as it seems once the motorized bin drops the cases in the tube it's all gravity, plus the mechanism at the bottom, that feed into the press.

For example, 9mm cases are .754" long, meaning a two foot tube could hold 31 cases. Seems you could manually load the tube every 30 rounds, and avoid the expense (and noise) of the motorized bin, but still have it be speedier than manually placing each cartridge case on the machine. Although admittedly not as fast as the motorized bin.

Is there something I'm missing on that idea?

Just to continue what @Wise_A said, the Lee case feeder and collator is adaptable to the 650/750. Google or YouTube searches will bring up information.

[Wise_A]

That's only true with a turret

Yes. That is to what I am referring. To be more precise, it's only true with auto-indexing turrets. Athlough to be quite honest, I've never used the Lyman or Redding Turret Presses Of Many Stations.

[DMF13]

Holy crap you guys weren't kidding about all the choices.

I've also found it's a slippery slope with the choices on presses. A Lee Turret is just a couple hundred away from a Square Deal, which is just a couple hundred away from a 550 or Lock-N-Load AP, which is just a couple hundred away from a 750.

By the way, is there any trick to quickly/easily separating out 9mm from 5.56mm brass? Last week my fairy godmother brought me a nearly full 5 gallon bucket of once fired brass, but it's an even mix of 5.56mm and 9mm.