Saving up to get started, and need advice.

[mmc45414]

I've loaded over 10K rds on a Lee Classic single stage press. That's all I have.
I seriously need to retool.

You might enjoy the simple addition of the Lee APP, a lot of utility for the $100.

[Jim Watson]

I will only be loading 9mm, with a very slight possibility of loading .357/.38 Special if I ever get back into revolvers.

Really?
If so, I will be the second to say it, Dillon Square Deal B.
Unique dies. So what?
Small footprint, self indexing.
I went from SDB to 550 and 1050. The 1050 is great, but now $2000. I do not consider the 550 to be an improvement over SDB for small primer pistol rounds.

[olstyn]

The nice thing about a single stage press is you learn the ins and outs of loading different cartridge's pretty fast without dealing with press issues. Those are great for new reloaders because each step is a very hands on separate operation. That can become mind numbing once you have the process down but I don't hear a lot of people saying it's a bad idea for a new reloader. It's just very time consuming but once you have the basics down you're probably ready for any number of high end progressive presses.

Speaking as someone who started out borrowing access to a single stage, it VERY QUICKLY becomes tedious and mind-numbing. Obviously individual results will vary, but I think I could have started out with a progressive.

I would suggest that just about anybody who has the necessary level of attention to detail to do any reloading at all could start out with a progressive. Just refrain from putting more than one case in the shell plate at a time while you're learning and you've effectively got a turret, which allows you to concentrate fully on each single step of the process without feeling like you have a need to upgrade equipment later.

[Jim Watson]

And yet people are adding steps that consume the time saved with a progressive.
They are processing bulk blasting ammo to a degree I reserve for target rifle loading.

[Borderland]

You might enjoy the simple addition of the Lee APP, a lot of utility for the $100.

If I move up it will probably be a progressive of some type. Thanks for the suggestion.

[DMF13]

Thanks for all the responses so far, I truly do appreciate it.

I’ll try to answer some of the questions/concerns raised:

Without knowing your mechanical ability . . .

Regarding my mechanical ability, I’d say it’s decent. For example, once upon a time (when I didn't have children, and had more "free" time), I built a 1911 from a Caspian slide and frame, and also customized a Springfield GI 1911. Also, my engineering background, and USAF flying time, disciplined me to be fairly detail oriented, and to strictly follow procedure when required.

I believe we are missing two pieces of information: your budget, and how much time you intend to spend reloading.

I'm a cheapskate, but I will trade treasure for truly better quality, and for a real savings in time. I know I need to start very slow, but would like to be able to work up to cranking out 400+ rounds an hour (not including de-priming and cleaning the brass). I'd plan on prepping the brass over one or two weekends, and then sitting down the following week for an hour or two to load up.

Also, I'm doing this for practical reasons, not because I will get any great enjoyment in the reloading itself.

I would honestly just buy ammo in bulk then. It'll probably be more expensive in the long run, but reloading rapidly gets out of hand.

That's how I've been handling the situation until now, but a combination of wanting to load something that will mimic my carry rounds, at a fraction of the cost of the "real deal," and to deal with the periodic, but persistent, ammo shortages, along with a desire to put in more live fire, have driven me to want the ability to load my own.

Also, thanks for the detailed list of what’s needed. That’s a huge help.

The ABCs of Reloading is another good book that explains the reloading process well.

Thanks, I’ll look for a copy.

With a progressive tool several of these steps take place at the same station (for example, the first station is size, deprime, prime), the 550 video shows this in a simple manner:
https://youtu.be/k0__OViMcaA
And I like this guy, and he goes into more detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACs8WW0Y2dU

Thanks for those links.

. . . there a buttload of options. . . . you potentially face a confusing decision.

You’re not kidding there. I had no idea there were so many options.

Thanks to you too, for your detailed list of necessary items.

You should probably have a caliper . . .

I have a decent dial caliper, but I may want to get a digital one for speed and ease of use.

You are going to want some kind of cleaner . . .

I’ve done some reading on that, and think I might want to use steel, and rock tumbler, like recommended here: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/steel...g-cheap-guide/ My understanding is doing it that way will cut down on the dust. However, I’m open to hearing what might be a better way to go.

One wildcard consideration might be the Lee APP. . .

I’ll add that to my list of options.

. . . auto-index . . . (five stations is a significant advantage, as it allows for using a bullet feeder *and* a powder check die, which, especially as I was getting used to loading on a progressive, I found comforting.

Thanks. These are the kind of things I’m clueless about.

. . . going with a non-progressive press for 9mm is just miserable, speaking as someone who learned to reload on his father in law's single stage. Yes, it'll take a while to pay off the "investment" in a 5-station auto-indexing progressive, but it's likely where you'd end up in the end anyway. Buy once, cry once.

I’m willing to suffer if necessary to get from point a to b, but I’ll skip the misery if it’s not required!

Chronograph - lots of options here from budget to expensive, but you can 100% get by with the budget options. IIRC I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $125-150, including purchasing a tripod for it.

Is that an absolutely necessary item, or just something needed if trying to load as light as possible for competition loads to meet "PF?"

If just loading 9mm, Dillon Square Deal. It s by far the most underappreciated press out there. I used to have three - 9, 40, 45 - and cranked out a lot of pistol ammo through them. I have 550s now because I do rifle.

Definitely on my list of possibilities. Although, I’m a little leery of the fact it uses non-standard dies. I’m wondering what would happen if Dillon ever decided to stop making that press, and supporting parts for it. Maybe I’m overthinking that though.

At 400 rounds per month, that is less than one hundred rounds per week. I cannot suggest a progressive press for both a new reloader and that round count. I use a hand press for that quantity, but a turret press would be more the norm.

I hear what you're saying, but I know how I am, and I'd rather prep the cases, and then sit down later to crank out a few hundred at a time, rather than 100 each week.

Due to dust and lead, my setups are in the outbuilding.

I'm going to be using a one car garage. Unfortunately that's also my home gym, so I'm going need to be very careful about dust mitigation. Which is one of the reason I was considering the steel media cleaning, as my understanding is it cuts down the dust significantly. I would also do the cleaning of the cases outside in the backyard.

A sturdy bench and lots of storage are needed.

That is not a problem at all. I will be building a very sturdy bench.

. . . Redding T7 . . .

Thanks. That too will be added to my list of ones to research.

. . . auto-index progressive . . . Progressive presses are fine to learn on, but you have to take the time to learn . . .

I will definitely go very slow to start. I'm a big believer in the "crawl, walk, run" philosophy of learning any new task.

Lee outdid themselves when they devised the Classic Cast Turret Press.

Also, added to the research list.

I went with a Dillon Square Deal B and a their started kit which had: a scale/calipers/primer flip tray/adjustment wrench/a few replacements parts etc. . .

. . . In normal times . . . We are not in normal times.

Amen to that, and the repeated comments about the SQB, from lots of you, will make me give it some very serious consideration.

In the end, IMHO, you will not "save" money reloading, you will simply spend more in the end because you will shoot more in the end.

That would be fine. I'm a big believer in dry fire, but if I want to achieve my goals in shooting pistols, then I definitely need to increase my live fire too.

[QUOTE]

Really?

Absolutely. While I have some ARs, my real interest in firearms almost exclusively handguns. I’m not a hunter, and I don’t see myself getting into 3 Gun. Other than shooting USPSA and/or IDPA with pistols, I might occasionally shoot PCC, if I felt the need to “play” with a long gun. So, I’d still only need 9mm.

If so, I will be the second to say it, Dillon Square Deal B.
Unique dies. So what?
Small footprint, self indexing.

Definitely going to get some serious consideration.

. . . start out with a progressive. Just refrain from putting more than one case in the shell plate at a time while you're learning and you've effectively got a turret, which allows you to concentrate fully on each single step of the process without feeling like you have a need to upgrade equipment later.

I didn't realize it was possible to treat them that way, but that sounds like it would fit into my plan of starting slow, but starting with equipment I can "grow into."

Again, thanks to all, I hope more info will be coming in. This sure will help me as I start doing my research, and planning things out.

[BehindBlueI's]

Speaking as someone who started out borrowing access to a single stage, it VERY QUICKLY becomes tedious and mind-numbing. Obviously individual results will vary, but I think I could have started out with a progressive.

Same, except I bought my first single stage. Still have it in the garage because reasons.

However, if you remove the indexing rod from a Lee turret...you've got yourself a single stage. So if you really want to learn on a single stage, you still have that option.

[olstyn]

Is that an absolutely necessary item, or just something needed if trying to load as light as possible for competition loads to meet "PF?"

Most competitors aren't actually chasing the lowest possible PF. The floor for "Minor" is 125 PF, and my current go-to load made 131 over my chronograph, and also 131 over the chronograph at the 2019 MN USPSA section match. Basically I'm looking for a load that is at least 130 PF so that I have a cushion in case the match chrono reads differently than mine, and which produces acceptable accuracy while running the gun well and not beating me or the gun up. I was once squadded with a guy whose ammo made 124.8 at a section match, which meant he was shooting not for score. Bad day for him.

Competition stuff aside, though, a chronograph really just gives you the luxury of actually knowing what results you're getting rather than guessing. It's really beneficial when you change components between things that sound like they should be the same but are actually different, like one 124 grain bullet to another 124 grain bullet from another company (different profiles = different seating depths = different velocity and accuracy results), or two different lot numbers of the same powder (could be the manufacturer adjusted the formulation and caused the velocity you get from a given charge weight to go up or down).

Ultimately, that was a long-winded way of saying that reloading is a detail-oriented activity and having a chronograph lets you know the details. You can get away with not having one, and I admit that I didn't have one at first, but I'd say it's one of the "nice to haves" that is pretty close to a "should have" unless you have a friend who'll let you shoot over theirs. (I'm happy to let people shoot over mine with the proviso that if they shoot the equipment, they just bought it.) Just my personal opinion, of course, but looking back, I wish a chrono had been part of my initial purchase of reloading stuff rather than being something I waited on - I'm pretty convinced that some of my early loads were close to being too hot, and if I'd had a chrono, I'd have actually known.

[Wise_A]

I'm a cheapskate, but I will trade treasure for truly better quality, and for a real savings in time. I know I need to start very slow, but would like to be able to work up to cranking out 400+ rounds an hour (not including de-priming and cleaning the brass). I'd plan on prepping the brass over one or two weekends, and then sitting down the following week for an hour or two to load up.
That's how I've been handling the situation until now, but a combination of wanting to load something that will mimic my carry rounds, at a fraction of the cost of the "real deal," and to deal with the periodic, but persistent, ammo shortages, along with a desire to put in more live fire, have driven me to want the ability to load my own.

Also, thanks for the detailed list of what’s needed. That’s a huge help.

NP. Those are non-bad reasons to reload. It's easier to store 25k primers and a couple keg-bottles of powder than it is to store 25k loaded rounds. Matching carry ammo is a decent goal, but can be frustrating depending on how exacting you want to be about felt recoil impulse, and what you're willing to spend on bullets (the price of plated bullets has varied wildly). But if you're willing to go to coated lead for bulk, and a pricier plated or jacketed bullet for "expensive but still less than factory", you could be very happy.

I will suggest that case processing needn't be its own thing. The advantage of the vibratory tumbler is that it's all pretty much pour-and-go. I leave my tumbler on a timer set to run for four hours once a day. I pour the tumbler into the media separator, dump the clean brass into a bin, pour the media back in, and add more dirty brass. Then I just leave. I come back the next day, and magically there's some clean brass and I repeat the process. Takes maybe 2-3 minutes a day, with one tumbler doing 150-200 pieces of 9mm at a go. If I needed more, I could either add another tumbler, or run twice a day. Oh, and if you're working with mixed range brass, shell sorting baskets and the optional metal .380 plate are worth every penny.

I think you're looking at the Dillon 750, personally. You can go pretty far with one, and the pricing isn't outrageous until you start adding in bullet- and case-feeders. What I will suggest is to factor in time for press maintenance and regular cleanup. If you get a Dillon, be aware you'll need to refill primer tubes as well.

[olstyn]

If you get a Dillon, be aware you'll need to refill primer tubes as well.

The Frankford Arsenal primer tube filler is a huge time (and hand pain) saver for that. Worth every penny IMO.