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Thread: Massad Ayoob's MAG-20 CROE and MAG-20 Live Fire

  1. #1

    Massad Ayoob's MAG-20 CROE and MAG-20 Live Fire

    I had the great good fortune of hosting Massad Ayoob for two of his classes….MAG-20 Citizen’s Rules of Engagement (CROE) and MAG-20, Live Fire from 21-25 October in Northern Virginia. This was the fourth time I have hosted Mas and he was on all cylinders again!

    In keeping with the 2020 motif, this year was different. In the past I hosted Mas for CROE during winter to provide a chance for people to keep their hand in and their brain engaged without freezing their butts off. (A little foreshadowing here…) This year we tried to run CROE and LF as two separate classes in the fall and give past CROE students first crack at registering for the live fire portion, essentially splitting up the MAG-40 curriculum. Another lesson learned…past expressions of intent do not always translate to action. Fortunately the program is so popular that plenty of people signed up and despite the unconventional approach many of the students were able to achieve MAG-40 certification (both classes and a written exam), and all was well that ended well.

    First up was MAG-20-CROE. This two-day, ten-hour classroom marathon is the absolute gold standard on the lawful use of force for citizens. Using his signature blend of lecture, video, and Q&A, Mas imparted a grad school level of education on the legal ramifications of self-defense. Every angle, from circumstances that justify the use of force to post-incident actions to court room strategy and tactics was covered in detail, and every minute of his 45+ years in this game were on full display for the students. I wish that more people would avail themselves of this course, we would have fewer of Claude Werner’s “negative outcomes.”

    MAG-20 Live Fire is a two-day, 500 round program emphasizing “blocking and tackling” skills with a pistol. Students received a from the ground up explanation and demonstration of every technique, as well as a history lesson in how things have evolved from back in the day. They were then afforded an opportunity to explore for themselves which works best in a tightly controlled, highly supervised live fire environment. This was appropriate given the disparate skills/experience levels possessed by the students. The stated course goal is not to impart one method, but to explain and allow them options to explore after the course. There was an emphasis on accuracy throughout, culminating in a low-stress qualification at the end of the course filled with foundational work.

    Note: this was SUPPOSED to be a two-day shooting event conducted over the weekend, but weather forced us to change things up. Saturday cooperated, but Sunday was a ground-soaking, wind driven rain at 40 degrees and not all the students were equipped to handle that sort of weather. The final kicker is that my range is built on a swamp, and the main parking lot becomes a morass when soaked, which it most definitely was. In a display of flexibility by Mas and the class and in the spirit of democracy, we voted. Approximately one third of the class elected to take their second day of shooting on Monday, the remainder are coming back 1-2 May of 2021. Enough of the instructor staff were able to make it, and in the end, it worked out beautifully.

    I started reading Massad Ayoob’s writings when I was 16. I am now 58.5 years old. Over 42 years have passed, and Mas is atop the pyramid he has built within the training community. He was the first to recognize the void of legal context in training for armed citizens and his combination of intellect, experience, work ethic and boundless energy has filled that gap with an unrivalled body of work. If facing time and money constraints, prioritize attending Citizen’s Rules of Engagement, but definitely find a way to first hand witness a master exercising his craft.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    An outstanding endorsement of an outstanding and iconic instructor. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by John Murphy View Post
    I started reading Massad Ayoob’s writings when I was 16. I am now 58.5 years old. Over 42 years have passed, and Mas is atop the pyramid he has built within the training community. He was the first to recognize the void of legal context in training for armed citizens and his combination of intellect, experience, work ethic and boundless energy has filled that gap with an unrivalled body of work. If facing time and money constraints, prioritize attending Citizen’s Rules of Engagement, but definitely find a way to first hand witness a master exercising his craft.


    I would concur with all of this, and it is interesting that John's experience lines up almost exactly with mine. I have been reading Mas' work since I was 15 (1979) and now at 56, I am amazed that Mas is still out there at the top. A couple if years ago, Craig Douglas and myself were hanging out at TacCon and walked into Mas' lecture. The two of us walked out afterwards stunned at how great a lecturer he is, and what a master of his craft. We both knew it, and had known it for decades, but every time you experience it, it is a thing of beauty.
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