Pump Shotguns and short stroking

[willie]

Comments refer to a 12 gauge 870. I will describe a malfunction that some experience. Bang, pump, click. This may not have been a short stroke. If not, this happened. Upon firing, recoil forced the shooters "pump hand" backwards a couple inches. This movement activated the forward shell latch to the position where it's role is retaining the next shell to be fed. Now, the shell in place to be fed into the action jumps forward past the forward shell latch. It is held in this position when the action is moved to the rear. Thus, there is not a shell to be fed. When the action is closed, we have an empty chamber. Click.

We talk about loading the 870 to a ready position by retracting the slide slightly and then pushing the shell past the forward shell latch. Then we retract the slide fully to the rear. Said shell continues to be held by the forward shell latch.This same thing occurs in the above example.

Two simple procedures will prevent this malfunction. One is consciously maintaining forward pressure on the fore end. Placing the pump hand on the rear portion of the slide helps maintain pressure. Visualize the angle formed by forearm and upper arm in this case.

The other procedure accomplishes this forward pressure without consciously pushing forward. Place the pump hand forefinger along the side the pump handle. This position will retard slide movement upon firing. Then we do not have this malfunction.

I have owned at least 30 870's and had the privilege of learning from factory trained armorers. There is no finer pump shotgun. However, Mossbergs don't have this defect. For this reason, I recommend the 500 series pumps.

I can demonstrate the above malfunction on demand. I can not demonstrate true short stroking. I do not deny that it exists, but if you tell me you short stroked your 12 gauge 870, I will doubt that.

In the above example, I said that the shell jumped forward upon firing. What happened was that recoil moved the gun backwards. The magazine tube moved past the shell. Increasing spring strength does not prevent this.
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[Pistol Pete 10]

I've been shooting pump guns since 1968, hunting, skeet and trap. i stopped shooting skeet with the pump because of short stroking. It happens, when it does it's a lost bird due to operator error. I don't use a shotgun for self defense, if I did it might be a double barrel.
My 2 cents....................

[DDTSGM]

We talk about loading the 870 to a ready position by retracting the slide slightly and then pushing the shell past the forward shell latch. Then we retract the slide fully to the rear. Said shell continues to be held by the forward shell latch.This same thing occurs in the above example.

Two simple procedures will prevent this malfunction. One is consciously maintaining forward pressure on the fore end. Placing the pump hand on the rear portion of the slide helps maintain pressure. Visualize the angle formed by forearm and upper arm in this case.

The other procedure accomplishes this forward pressure without consciously pushing forward. Place the pump hand forefinger along the side the pump handle. This position will retard slide movement upon firing. Then we do not have this malfunction.

When firing the shotgun many folks are taught to pull the shotgun firmly into the shoulder, not a bad idea unless they pull back with the support/pump hand.

In the 870's this wedges the rear of the left action bar against the action lock. When the shotgun is fired, the shooter then has to release pressure to allow the action to unlock. Usually what happens is they pull back, find the action locked, kind of double-clutch, and end up not fully cycling the action.

Mossberg's have a different set up, so don't have that problem.

[Edster]

One of the side benefits I've found from adopting push/pull technique with an 870 is it encourages running the pump aggressively. It goes naturally from "stretch the gun" to "compress the gun".

I agree with all criticisms of pump gun and two-handed operation versus an autoloader, though.

[SwampDweller]

I have a Winchester Super X3 I use for hunting, but it's hardly suitable for defensive long gun use. It's also disappointingly unreliable, even with full power loads. I suppose it comes down to a 5-shot Benelli M4 or a Beretta 1301 of sorts. The M4 has an excellent pedigree and government reliability testing results showing two malfunctions in 30k rounds, according to Benelli's website talking about the XM1014 trails, which had to be translated from Italian. I'm looking into the Beretta 1301 right now to see if there is a similarly impressive track record.

[Lex Luthier]

I am helping a newbie neighbor with her "new" shotgun- it's her late Grandpa's 1962 Winchester Model 12 field grade 12 gauge.
After taking it down, cleaning out a bunch of cack, lubing it for the first time in probably 40 years, and function-testing it with snap-caps, I showed her the push-pull technique, which she will try tomorrow for the first time.
I have to admit, it was very easy to short stroke this particular action due to the fact that it needs the fore-end to be pulled forward hard to get it into battery. (The crappy plastic Pachmayr snap caps do not help, nor the almost certain layer of varnish built up on the bearing surfaces.)
We will shoot it tomorrow so she can get an idea of what she wants to do with it, but she is quite mindful of what it will take to run the gun, so far. She liked the idea of working the slide like one is trying to break it.
I've already put the phrase, "Next shotgun: Semi-auto, Italian, starts with a B" in her head...

[Duelist]

My favorite pump is an early 50s Ithaca 37 Featherlight Skeet, 12g. Grandpa had one in 16g - it got stolen from the cousin who ended up with all 3 of grandad’s guns. He had a little browning .22 semiauto, the cute little one with the magazine tube in the butt, and a sporterized 1903. Might have been an A3.

I got mine a couple of years ago. Killed the last birds my first Brittany was here for with it. Shot quite a bit of trap, and some skeet with it. That slick action just seems to run itself. I’ve missed a shot on a dove and hit it with the second before I realized I’d run the action.

I got a little 20g 870 Express youth, and it seems to work fine, but I haven’t shot it very much really. A couple hundred rounds.