Yes, it’s good to have options.Originally Posted by fatdog
True that, at least until her majesty Queen Kamala decrees no more civilian ownership of any form of semi-auto firearm. I can go to my safe and find the revolvers and leverguns while many will have to start shopping
That was a nice trip down memory lane.
My use is quite a bit similar to Malamute's, I keep a rifle available all the time in my rural world and use them frequently. I have mountain lion sign on my property daily, skunks and coyotes are regular targets of opportunity, a neighbors bull moseys over here every once in a while, etc, etc. My pump (not lever, but lever guns are it's closest cousin and similarly shaped).44 mag allows me a small, light, narrow, handy, petite, easy to carry solution to most of my tasks. I don't carry it to repel hoards of antifa looters but would be glad to have it over just a handgun in that situation.
So for me it's a compromise gun that handles a wide variety of day to day things well, at short to just a little more than short ranges much better than a handgun. and I always have spare ammo for it on my belt for my sidearm. I have no delusion that there aren't better specialized rifles in my house for many tasks, but they don't go everywhere with me for several reasons. I would use it if needed in self defense against humans with confidence because I know where it hits, cycle it quick and shoot it a lot.
Last reason is because I like to shoot it, it's fun.
Interesting thread. Many of the respondents have forgotten more about working with leverguns than I know. With that caveat upfront, I will echo previous comments about the XTP loads in .44mag (300gr, 240gr); Doc GKR has noted that the 300 in particular has an absurdly wide effective velocity range, and seems to perform well out of both revolvers and carbines/rifles. I will note that the XTP 300s are uncannily accurate out of my pet 20” Henry, and feed very well. I realize that the Henry’s lack of a side loading gate is a disadvantage, but starting with 10 rounds of 300gr XTP pushing 18-20” deep, 3/4 of an inch wide tubes in tissue seems like a good head start before transitioning to the G45.
In .357, a similar, but certainly weaker argument can be made for a 158gr JSP as a “same load in both guns” round.
JMO.
It was not my intent to steer this thread into a PCC heavy discussion. I intended it to be an focused on the levergun reliability issue. I mentioned the PCC thing early as that is one of the frequent questions I get concerning leverguns.
In my own mind, levergun = .30-30. However, I don't live in a western state where a .45-70 would be desirable.
I should also clarify that my thoughts are strongly weighted in defensive/social contexts primarily over hunting.
For loading drills, rifle rounds are much easier to manipulate than pistol rounds, but those would only be of consequence in the unusual circumstance in which you ran the gun dry.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
.30-30 in a lever gun makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately in many states, including Michigan where I’m from, there’s a huge chunk of the state that doesn’t allow hunting with tapered rifle cartridges. So a lever gun chambered in a straight wall cartridge that can do dual duty of social and hunting use makes a lot of sense in working within those laws. This naturally leads down the path of “well if I can chamber the rifle same as my revolver then that’s less decision making and logistics that I have to worry about”. .45-70 is straight walled, yes, but a bit potent and capacity hindered for social purposes.
A lever gun in .357 or .44 makes a heck of a lot of sense for where the majority of people in Michigan actually live for kind of a “do all” rifle that’s more resistant to anti-gun legislation. A “socially acceptable spaghetti western AR” as it were.
It’s sounding like, more and more these days, unless the damn thing is a plastic fantastic designed to go into a kydex holster and under a shirt, it simply needs to go off to a gunsmith to correct some manufacturing QC laziness in order to not suck.
The original post mentioned pistol caliber guns having specific problems, many of us havent had those problems. Some issues that have been mentioned are tuning issues, not necessarily endemic to a given model or type. The 92 type actions being known to vary widely regarding workable cartridge length and feeding. That can be tuned or adjusted to some degree to help make them more useful for a variety of loads.
Agree on rifle rounds being easier to handle and load than pistol rounds. If loading from a bulk supply like a pocket or shell bag, putting some of the to-be loaded rounds between the fingers of the off hand, staging them so to speak, can be helpful. It takes a few seconds to do, but saves hand motion, fumbling, and I think reduces having to look down quite as much to load. 30-30 works well in that instance, skinny ends of the cartridges fit between the fingers nicely, long enough to grab and handle easily.
As to hunting, many use levers as general purpose guns, not only as defensive, so theres going to be much crossover rationalization or reasoning for why and how some guns are chosen or used. When hanging out more where the bears lived, a 348 or 45-70 was my first choice, when not doing that as much, a 30-30, 44 with medium loads or 357 is workable and lighter to carry. All would work defensively, some easier to use than others in certain ways. In most uses, theyd never be shot through a full magazine or more at once. When we do so, we discover it becomes an issue with how hot they get. The pistol calibers dont seem to heat up as quickly as a 30-30 with carbine weight barrel. I havent shot the 348 enough like that to know, but it likely gets very hot very quickly.
Fwiw, One time Id been shooting a 30-30 some, several magazines worth at steel plates at a casual pace, then intended to go dog walking, the barrel was still uncomfortably hot to carry. Recalling the old stories of buffalo hunters, I poured some water down the bore and outside of the barrel from the chamber end, the barrel quickly cooled, I shook out the residual water, loaded up and went for a walk. Something that may be useful some day if your barrel gets really hot.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
I reload a lever gun first from the butt cuff, then from speed strips.
To use the strips, I can grasp both the fore end and the strip with my left hand. I use my strong hand to pluck the rounds out of the strip and put them in the mag tube.
The advantage of the strips is that instead of having to dig a yard sale of lose rounds out of your pocket, all higgledy piggledy pointed in different directions, I've got eight rounds all oriented in the same way. It's also quicker than pulling individual rounds out of shell loops or a pouch on the belt.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
Are you using a pistol caliber lever action or is there a source for rifle caliber speed strips?
Men freely believe that which they desire.
Julius Caesar
The answer is "yes."
I'm primarily using a Marlin 1894c, so I'm toting strips with 8 rounds of .357. Also, Tuff Products makes strips sized for the 30-30 case head.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
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