The Modern Combat Revolver

[03RN]

I think allowed pressures for a 38 Special, even at +P, and even with a 4" barrel, limit what can be done. I don't think that 125gr bullet at +P pressures and velocities beats 1000 fps, even from a long barrel, making it nowhere near a 9mm 124gr +P at around 1200 fps.

With 357 pressures, it's easy.

It just seems that when we try to combine portability, power and control in a revolver, the right combination essentially mimics 9mm ballistics.

Didn't Jim Cirillo load his revolvers with rounds that had 9mm like ballistics (his favored bullets being very different)?

Load data has 125/130 and 158gr bullets top out around 1100fps

[Totem Polar]

Load data has 125/130 and 158gr bullets top out around 1100fps

Tell that to Tim Sundles.

He’s getting +/- 1150fps out of 158grainers in his personal revolvers.

At any rate, you are spot on about 1100 being easy. Back in the day, the RCMP spec’d a version of the “FBI” load that would hit over 1000fps in their revolvers at the time. No reason why big box companies couldn’t make that the standard. Of course, there’s also no reason that Federal couldn’t release an updated version of their 147gr +P+ Hydra Shok .38 using HST to get us there. But they haven’t.

[03RN]

I think allowed pressures for a 38 Special, even at +P, and even with a 4" barrel, limit what can be done. I don't think that 125gr bullet at +P pressures and velocities beats 1000 fps, even from a long barrel, making it nowhere near a 9mm 124gr +P at around 1200 fps.

With 357 pressures, it's easy.

It just seems that when we try to combine portability, power and control in a revolver, the right combination essentially mimics 9mm ballistics.

Didn't Jim Cirillo load his revolvers with rounds that had 9mm like ballistics (his favored bullets being very different)?

Load data has 125/130 and 158gr bullets top out around 1100fps for .38+p

With my milk jug tests Ive been pretty impressed with my 140gr xtp magnum load at 1250fps. Kills grouse well too

Holds together from a carbine(1600fps?) and seems to penetrate and expand really well from 3"s and recoil is very manageable.

[03RN]

Tell that to Tim Sundles.

He’s getting +/- 1150fps out of 158grainers in his personal revolvers.

At any rate, you are spot on about 1100 being easy. Back in the day, the RCMP spec’d a version of the “FBI” load that would hit over 1000fps in their revolvers at the time. No reason why big box companies couldn’t make that the standard. Of course, there’s also no reason that Federal couldn’t release an updated version of their 147gr +P+ Hydra Shok .38 using HST to get us there. But they haven’t.

https://www.defensivecarry.com/threa...dloads.125541/

[That Guy]

I think allowed pressures for a 38 Special, even at +P, and even with a 4" barrel, limit what can be done. I don't think that 125gr bullet at +P pressures and velocities beats 1000 fps, even from a long barrel, making it nowhere near a 9mm 124gr +P at around 1200 fps.

Magtech 125gr .38 Special +P did about 950fps out of the 2 3/4" barrel of my Speed Six. This was during fairly cool weather, too, so a sunny summer day might boost the velocity a bit. The muzzle flash was quite impressive - I think there was quite a bit of powder left for a longer barrel. I think, but have not tested this, that the same load should go faster than 1000fps out of a 4" barrel. How much faster, well, that's a good question.

[revchuck38]

Back in the day, the RCMP spec’d a version of the “FBI” load that would hit over 1000fps in their revolvers at the time. No reason why big box companies couldn’t make that the standard. Of course, there’s also no reason that Federal couldn’t release an updated version of their 147gr +P+ Hydra Shok .38 using HST to get us there. But they haven’t.

Well yeah, there is. It's called "return on investment". They'd sell a few cases on P-F and that's about it. Few, if any, LE agencies would be interested. I don't doubt that they could do it.

https://www.defensivecarry.com/threa...dloads.125541/

That article is nine years old and relied on data that was 30 years out of date when he wrote it. The only load that was remotely close to current data is 5.4 grains of Unique; Alliant currently lists 5.2 as max. I don't know how much current data is influenced by a better understanding of the forces generated by a given load and how much is lawyer-induced, but IMO the juice just isn't worth the squeeze to go over modern loads.

[Wondering Beard]

Load data has 125/130 and 158gr bullets top out around 1100fps for .38+p

With my milk jug tests Ive been pretty impressed with my 140gr xtp magnum load at 1250fps. Kills grouse well too

Holds together from a carbine(1600fps?) and seems to penetrate and expand really well from 3"s and recoil is very manageable.

So I looked up Cirillo's loads in my dog eared copy of Guns Bullets and Gunfights. On page 11 he talks about refitting his model 10 with a model 19 .357 cylinder, a 4" Douglas barrel and a Bo-Mar rib; his load was a 125gr bullet (of his own design) meant to be going at 1250 fps; that's definitely 9mm +p to +P+. On page 45, he mentions using a 100gr bullet at 1200 fps, for summer, and a 135gr at 1100 fps, for winter (heavy clothing); again, this is 9mm territory.

The 38 Special can definitely be loaded hotter and safely (since I'm not a reloader, @03RN, I'll take you at your word for those numbers) and it seems that full power 357 magnums in shorter barreled guns lose some power (but not that much) though they can be obnoxious to shoot (depends on the shooter too, I have never found the 125gr screamers or the 180 gr full power mags to be that bad but everyone's different); 9mm ballistics seem like a happy medium to have from a 2-3" revolver as it mixes carryability, controllability, and effective terminal ballisitcs.

[Caballoflaco]

Well yeah, there is. It's called "return on investment". They'd sell a few cases on P-F and that's about it. Few, if any, LE agencies would be interested. .

Except that one guy who buys a twenty round box and ends up with a face full of pot metal and brass after his grandmama’s cheap break-top revolver explodes in his face.

[SwampDweller]

We actually got a 4" stainless GP100 into the shop today. I was about set on purchasing it until I got to mess with it a bit and discovered that sometimes the transfer bar wouldn't move into position on two of the chambers...

[Lester Polfus]

We actually got a 4" stainless GP100 into the shop today. I was about set on purchasing it until I got to mess with it a bit and discovered that sometimes the transfer bar wouldn't move into position on two of the chambers...

Off. That's sad news.

I'd love to pick up a Smith 640 Pro, but even if I find a new one for sale, how bad do I want a gun Smith built in a hurry?