The Modern Combat Revolver

[ECVMatt]

I love reading Bill Jordan...he was them man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3YUqn2c8ss

[jrbway]

I’ve recently been down a .38/.357 rabbit hole, because, local vintage K-frame sales seem to keep popping up—a guy has to do what he has to do. So get this: over at the lucky gunner chrono tests, the .38 GDHP only did 821 average out of the test K6, and 890 out of the 4”.

With the clear/synth gel caveat acknowledged, .38 expansion wasn’t all that good, so, yeah.

The .357 load is in another league, so I have the .357 version in my revolvers (or Remmy GS; aside from barriers, I see the 2 .357 loads as interchangeable, and the .357 GDHP is harder to find). I personally prefer the .357 GDHP over the .38 load, and Chris B seemed to arrive at a similar conclusion, at least in terms of performance. The increased recoil isn’t commensurate with the performance jump, in my opinion—the .357 GDHP is still pretty mild.

I don’t have much use for the .38 version, in all. I’m either going with the .357 in steel guns, or just going with a wadcutter in the crazy light, 5-shot lounge-around guns. JMO, and the deer anecdote doesn’t do anything to make me rethink the choice.

I’m curious what others thoughts are on the 125 Grain .357 Gold Dot out of a 2.75-3” barrel? We know the testing shows it over penetrates and doesn’t expand out of 2” guns and performs adequately from 4” guns (Lucky Gunner testing).
I think this load is easier to find than the short barrel load—at least these days.

[03RN]

I’m curious what others thoughts are on the 125 Grain .357 Gold Dot out of a 2.75-3” barrel? We know the testing shows it over penetrates and doesn’t expand out of 2” guns and performs adequately from 4” guns (Lucky Gunner testing).
I think this load is easier to find than the short barrel load—at least these days.

Hard to tell what it'll really do from tests using clear gel

[jrbway]

Hard to tell what it'll really do from tests using clear gel

Touché.

[entropy]

I never had the honor of hearing Bill Jordan speak.

He sounds EXACTLY like I thought he would. The drawl rolls out like fine scotch...

Thanks for that!

[Totem Polar]

I’m curious what others thoughts are on the 125 Grain .357 Gold Dot out of a 2.75-3” barrel? We know the testing shows it over penetrates and doesn’t expand out of 2” guns and performs adequately from 4” guns (Lucky Gunner testing).
I think this load is easier to find than the short barrel load—at least these days.

Hard to tell what it'll really do from tests using clear gel

One thing that we probably can tell is that expansion v penetration likely won’t be any better under more rigorous testing protocols in temp controlled organic gel, let alone sentient meat sacks.

I strongly suspect that the 125 .357 GDHP is being driven below it’s optimum design threshold in the snubs. I have no doubt that it would be a relative ass-kicker in 4” guns, on both ends of the revolver, but I’d rather have an old-school 125 SJHP, if I’m going to suffer the blast and recoil.

I’m no great SME, but I have nonetheless come to the opinion that the sweet spot for .38/.357 defensive ammo is more than commercial .38+P typically offers, and less than commercial .357 typically offers. There’s a reason that my ammo cans dedicated to things with .357” diameter slugs are filled primarily with Buffalo Bore .38 and mid-range Remington or Speer .357.

JMO.

[Malamute]

Nobody talks much about the 357 158 gr sjhp loads, no love?

In the 4" Smith 19 there was a fair amount of rear sight elevation required to zero that load, nearly to the end of the adjustment screw. I gave it up after a short flirtation. The guys here that have used them or seen them used have mentioned they expanded reliably, as do the tests ive been able to find. Velocity seems to be high 1200s to 1300 fps in 4" Smiths. It seems the down side is more recoil, and some more penetration. Neither are a huge issue to me in a 2 1/2" or 4" 19 Smith. Id prefer greater penetration as a general purpose field and defensive load, and as regards recoil, I dont try to shoot as fast as i can any more. They also seem to hold together for the most part in carbines.

[SCCY Marshal]

Nobody talks much about the 357 158 gr sjhp loads, no love?

A four inch Smith and Wesson model 28-2 so loaded is a couple steps away. Magtech 357B 158 grain SJHP that chrono about 1,240fps in that specific gun, to be specific. They've proven reliable and at least minute-of-A-zone for me out to 25 yards. The front sight post having been rounded by decades of holster work on the hips of previous owners has more to do with my standing freestyle group size at 25+ yards than the ammo.

It is a flashy load with plenty of muzzle blast and recoil to match but cleaning a Hayes/Werner 5^5 on demand from the draw is no problem. My eldest has taken a shine to it in his grandfather's old duty GP100 despite being a scrawny little brat. My father had always run Federal's 125 grain SJHP screamer on duty and off with most practice ammo veing Blazer's garbage aluminum cased 125 grain Magnum load or whatever .38 with POI being close enough for government work.

Into a row of refilled gallon milk jugs clad in four layers of retired work pants, the lead tip of my Magtech slum load will fully expand and likey shear off as a donut toward the mid-to-late wound channel. Five or six jugs penetrated, forget which and too lazy to dig through my post history to check. I doubt it'd perform so well out of a shorter tube but would be willing to try. Probably out of a snub-nosed K6S a friend is is picking up from layaway sometime by the end of the Holidays.

I like the 158 grain bullets for a bit more grunt in quadrupeds bigger than dogs where experience has shown the 125s a bit lackluster. The bullet design is old but does tend to get the job done and relatively cheaply in some brands with more consistent availability for not being the sexy new product.

I am forever fond of the 158 grain SJHP to the point it's a personal favorite and go-to but am a duffer. Outside of budget constraints and ammo shortages, fully jacketed hollowpoints making use of the last several decades of design are likely better.

[revchuck38]

Nobody talks much about the 357 158 gr sjhp loads, no love?

The R-P version shoots to POA in my 681 so that's what I carry in it, and I've zeroed my 27 and 28 for it.

[Wondering Beard]

I’m no great SME, but I have nonetheless come to the opinion that the sweet spot for .38/.357 defensive ammo is more than commercial .38+P typically offers, and less than commercial .357 typically offers. There’s a reason that my ammo cans dedicated to things with .357” diameter slugs are filled primarily with Buffalo Bore .38 and mid-range Remington or Speer .357.

JMO.

So, basically 9mm ballistics?

:-)