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Thread: The Modern Combat Revolver

  1. #351
    Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    Maybe my thinking isnt correct. I also have never had the opportunity to shoot either the 9mm or the 327 but from what Ive read the recoil is obnoxious. But then again you’ve got @GJM saying .22 and 9mm in the LCR is the choice at Rogers.
    Maybe some people more experienced than me can chime in. Im hoping @Dagga Boy or @Cecil Burch are around.
    I would not rely on a .22 unless it was literally the only thing my hands could tolerate. Even with good shot placement, it's just too easy to deflect off bone and teeth and it will not break bone. You're heavily reliant on a psychological stop with the .22, and if we accept the theory that noise and flash increase the "psychological stopping power", so to speak, you're on the low end there as well. It'll do just fine in that block of shootings that end up in the win column based on presentation alone, making noise but missing, etc. It's not what I'd want failing that, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  2. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I would not rely on a .22 unless it was literally the only thing my hands could tolerate. Even with good shot placement, it's just too easy to deflect off bone and teeth and it will not break bone. You're heavily reliant on a psychological stop with the .22, and if we accept the theory that noise and flash increase the "psychological stopping power", so to speak, you're on the low end there as well. It'll do just fine in that block of shootings that end up in the win column based on presentation alone, making noise but missing, etc. It's not what I'd want failing that, though.
    I agree it is cold comfort but...

    It does lead to some interesting mathing.

    Kleck says presentation alone works into the 90th percentile.

    The bang miss takes out a few more percentage points.

    A hit, anywhere, with anything will cause a whole bunch of thugs to reconsider recent life choices.

    A hit, in the vitals, with anything will change many channels from "gimme" to "E.R."

    Who's left to shoot for a CCW? Crazed druggies, hard gangsters(nearly a Unicorn) that want to kill for the sake of honor.

    Enraged men beating their wives/girlfriends(this would be a real consideration).

    From your studies what reactions to being shot have you seen? From my experience across 30 years almost no one does anything after being shot

    besides fall down or run away.

    Have you seen many determined attacks on citizens carried through after being hit? LEO shootings are a different thing.

    There's a reason we still talk about the 86 Miami shootout after 34 years.

  3. #353
    Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feudist View Post
    I agree it is cold comfort but...

    It does lead to some interesting mathing.

    Kleck says presentation alone works into the 90th percentile.

    The bang miss takes out a few more percentage points.

    A hit, anywhere, with anything will cause a whole bunch of thugs to reconsider recent life choices.

    A hit, in the vitals, with anything will change many channels from "gimme" to "E.R."

    Who's left to shoot for a CCW? Crazed druggies, hard gangsters(nearly a Unicorn) that want to kill for the sake of honor.

    Enraged men beating their wives/girlfriends(this would be a real consideration).

    From your studies what reactions to being shot have you seen? From my experience across 30 years almost no one does anything after being shot

    besides fall down or run away.

    Have you seen many determined attacks on citizens carried through after being hit? LEO shootings are a different thing.

    There's a reason we still talk about the 86 Miami shootout after 34 years.
    Even if we say the .22 is a 90% solution, or even a 95% solution it still begs: What do I gain? Capacity. Which is useless in the block of "didn't need to incapacitate anyway" shootings. It's not cheaper to purchase (usually the opposite with the LCR, anyway). It's not smaller, therefore easier to conceal. So even if we accept all of the above why do I opt for the .22 over the .38? If there's no gain, why accept the loss of ability to break bone, more rapid incapacitation, ability to defeat more intermediate barriers, etc. in the remainder (again assuming physical limitations aren't an issue)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  4. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Even if we say the .22 is a 90% solution, or even a 95% solution it still begs: What do I gain? Capacity. Which is useless in the block of "didn't need to incapacitate anyway" shootings. It's not cheaper to purchase (usually the opposite with the LCR, anyway). It's not smaller, therefore easier to conceal. So even if we accept all of the above why do I opt for the .22 over the .38? If there's no gain, why accept the loss of ability to break bone, more rapid incapacitation, ability to defeat more intermediate barriers, etc. in the remainder (again assuming physical limitations aren't an issue)?
    Well said.

    As to the other question about common reactions to handgun hits?

  5. #355
    Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feudist View Post
    Well said.

    As to the other question about common reactions to handgun hits?
    By a large margin, unless entangled, flight or surrender. Sometimes with "covering fire" as they flee, sometimes not. A few "ties" have resulted sustained significant injury as a result.

    I think any more detailed discussion would best be served in it's own thread, or one of the existing threads on the topic, as we're ranging pretty far afield from this thread's purpose at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

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