The Modern Combat Revolver

[BillSWPA]

My experience is the same, and it's why I still prefer Harries after all these years.



I don't understand what you mean.

A normal 2 hand grip places equal pressure on both sides of the shooting hand from the support hand.

A Harries hold places all the pressure on one side of the shooting hand.

A cigar hold places most of the pressure on the other side of the shooting hand.


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[Hambo]

A normal 2 hand grip places equal pressure on both sides of the shooting hand from the support hand.

A Harries hold places all the pressure on one side of the shooting hand.

I would say that a two handed grip places pressure on both sides of the pistol grip, but not equally on both sides of the shooting hand. Harries, as I do it, has pressure on the back of both hands. Instead of pushing together, they're pulling outward equally. Or said another way, the backs of my hands are pressed together.

[SCCY Marshal]

My current answer:

Thanks for the link! I'll be ordering this next pay cycle to play with. 90° lights are forever useful. Even if it doesn't pan out with a wheelgun, I will still do a ton of work with it. The description is accurate and it can be set to high-only, correct?

[JAD]

A normal 2 hand grip places equal pressure on both sides of the shooting hand from the support hand.

A Harries hold places all the pressure on one side of the shooting hand.

A cigar hold places most of the pressure on the other side of the shooting hand.

I am not qualified to instruct and am essentially reading from my notes. If you don't think these techniques are effective, I'd suggest getting good training in them. I think flashlight use is a third-tier curriculum for a CCW person. We usually don't need lights outside of the home, and inside of the home we have other options including turning the fucking lights on. But if you're curious, here's what I've picked up.

A harries hold creates isometric tension between the backs of the hands, and functions like an isosceles. Applied properly it's exhausting, but it creates a very stable shooting platform. It is limited in working right side corners. It can be worked with the muzzle down.

A rogers hold creates isometric tension between the heel of the hand and the side of the grip, exactly like the modern iso. Good pressure is required to keep the hands from coming apart but it's effective when trained. It is light-specific and very tiring. I don't use it because I've never figured out how to do it with the muzzle down -- I have small hands and it takes me too long to come from a broken/muzzle down hold to a firing grip.

Jaw or neck index is OK but doesn't help you shoot much. It's useful for longer searches, which is of limited relevance to a CCW dude (flashlights, fundamentally, are of limited relevance to CCW), and it's what I use when working a right corner. I do not like lighting up my grape and in this sense jaw index is a good thing -- a reminder that we have to change positions IMMEDIATELY after using the light. Still might be too late, really hate it.

My experience with FBI is that people tend to wave the light around a lot unless it's got a lot of flood. Some sort of index is a good thing. It's nice to get the light away from your body, but it's counterproductive if you wind up leaving the light on for half an hour while you figure out where you're pointing it.


ETA: Possibly the most important point is that familiarity with multiple techniques is good because no one technique works the best in all situations. That's why I don't care for Totem Polar's angle light -- it's a one trick pony. That said, it probably doesn't matter anyway. Practice drawing quickly and placing shots rapidly and precisely while maintaining assessment of your target.

[fatdog]

..Possibly the most important point is that familiarity with multiple techniques is good because no one technique works the best in all situations.

While I was taught all of those techniques you mention in formal classes at one point or another in various classes. I made my conclusions about each based on how well they worked for me firing the gun on a static range at a fixed target.

It was not until I got to Southnarc's AMIS (highly recommended course work) that I got to test any of it beyond the static firing range. I was able to take AMIS twice, of course that is an intense FoF in abandoned buildings and lots of night exercises. It caused me to come to the conclusion you stated. I believe until somebody has pushed all this stuff through contentious force on force in dynamic environments in totally dark places you don't know what you don't know. I sure did not.

What I learned over the course of those 3 day classes each time changed my understanding, and I appreciate the usefulness of each technique. I also came to appreciate the weapon mounted light too when the pellets begin to fly.

If the objective is to hit your opponent and not get hit yourself there are an awful lot of moving pieces, and the context of where you are, what cover if any is in the environment, and the light levels are complicating factors. Add movement, and the task loading is very high. What helped me a lot of was having that environment to test and learn, and fail frequently without consequence.

[SCCY Marshal]

F.B.I. is much more stable with a Kel-Lite or Mag-Lite and came from that era. It's also sometimes handy behind some forms of cover and for threading the light around intermediary objects.

[UNK]

If we could go back to the bullets. I always thought wadcutters were the bees knee for snubbys re the ammo thread by doc. I have two J’s one to carry wadcutters in and one to carry the short barrel ammo in because of the sight regulation.
For me GD SB was always almost impossible to find . I did have a chance to purchase winchester sb 38 ammo and bought a bunch of it. I just use regular ball 38 for practice for that gun.
My thoughts are if I was going to expand beyond those two calibers Id have to look at the 327 magnum or 9mm offerings in the short barrels.
It just seems no matter what I read the .357 is never a good choice in the 1 7/8 - 3” barrels.

Maybe my thinking isnt correct. I also have never had the opportunity to shoot either the 9mm or the 327 but from what Ive read the recoil is obnoxious. But then again you’ve got @GJM saying .22 and 9mm in the LCR is the choice at Rogers.
Maybe some people more experienced than me can chime in. Im hoping @Dagga Boy or @Cecil Burch are around.

[Cecil Burch]

Maybe my thinking isnt correct. I also have never had the opportunity to shoot either the 9mm or the 327 but from what Ive read the recoil is obnoxious. But then again you’ve got @GJM saying .22 and 9mm in the LCR is the choice at Rogers.
Maybe some people more experienced than me can chime in. Im hoping @Dagga Boy or @Cecil Burch are around.

IMO, the recoil from the 327 in the LCR is not too bad. What is amazing is the almost flashbang like effect of the muzzle blast. Even Legendary Lawdog Chuck Haggard was surprised by it when he used my gun to do some ballistic gel work at last year's Revolver Round Up. There is a decided thump in recoil impulse, but it is not unlike a +p 38sp load in a snubby. Certainly wayyyyyyyyyyyy better than a 357 load in one. Having said that, I do tend to run 32 H&R mags in it rather than the full house 327.

And on your last note - I am in no way an expert on the snub like a Darryl or Chuck or Ellifritz or Claude Werner. I run one a lot, and have been doing so for about 13 years or so, but if I do have an expertise in the area, it is more how to use one in an entangled or close quarters fight. If you want the intricacies of revolver shooting, go to those guys. I certainly do.

[Cecil Burch]

It was not until I got to Southnarc's AMIS (highly recommended course work) that I got to test any of it beyond the static firing range. I was able to take AMIS twice, of course that is an intense FoF in abandoned buildings and lots of night exercises. It caused me to come to the conclusion you stated. I believe until somebody has pushed all this stuff through contentious force on force in dynamic environments in totally dark places you don't know what you don't know. I sure did not.

What I learned over the course of those 3 day classes each time changed my understanding, and I appreciate the usefulness of each technique. I also came to appreciate the weapon mounted light too when the pellets begin to fly.

If the objective is to hit your opponent and not get hit yourself there are an awful lot of moving pieces, and the context of where you are, what cover if any is in the environment, and the light levels are complicating factors. Add movement, and the task loading is very high. What helped me a lot of was having that environment to test and learn, and fail frequently without consequence.

I concur. I used to fall into a lot of internet arguments over the right light and how to use it. After doing AMIS, I realized (again) that I am an idiot. You can't truly test these methods on the square range and understand the little things. You need to run it in a darkened factory, with upstairs, open floors littered with shelving and small offices all integral to each other to really see how most of the various techniques have a place.

[UNK]

IMO, the recoil from the 327 in the LCR is not too bad. What is amazing is the almost flashbang like effect of the muzzle blast. Even Legendary Lawdog Chuck Haggard was surprised by it when he used my gun to do some ballistic gel work at last year's Revolver Round Up. There is a decided thump in recoil impulse, but it is not unlike a +p 38sp load in a snubby. Certainly wayyyyyyyyyyyy better than a 357 load in one. Having said that, I do tend to run 32 H&R mags in it rather than the full house 327.

And on your last note - I am in no way an expert on the snub like a Darryl or Chuck or Ellifritz or Claude Werner. I run one a lot, and have been doing so for about 13 years or so, but if I do have an expertise in the area, it is more how to use one in an entangled or close quarters fight. If you want the intricacies of revolver shooting, go to those guys. I certainly do.

Thanks Cecil! Looking forward to part two of your article on snubbys at your website!